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No I don't have any pressure readings on that I would be very careful of a bullet that large
Of corse we all know there is no “perfect” anything. To me the ideal muzzy bullet for any particular species is sufficiently accurate, expands, creates massive damage to vitals and exits for a good blood trail if needed. That’s a tall order in many cases.Thanks for starting this discussion Mtn Monkey! I always learn something here reading others thoughts.
Our military’s adoption of expanding ammo, as I understand it, is a very recent change. Here’s some interesting reading on the subject:
https://www.justsecurity.org/25200/dod-law-war-manual-returns-hollow-point-bullets-armed-conflict/
That said, I agree that an effective bullet has to balance accuracy and terminal performance. As I’ve said before, I think most bullets are adequate for whitetails at short ranges. The “two pellets and a Powerbelt” crowd has proven this. We should remember though that we are not all whitetail hunters. Elk (and many other species of big game), for example, can be much harder to kill (and recover) than smaller deer-sized game. It’s not enough to kill an animal, we have to recover it quickly. I’ve personally seen .30 cal bullets from centerfire rifles explode on an elk’s shoulder and fail to penetrate even 4 inches. Ive seen an elk dropped in its tracks with a .223 head-shot at 311 yards. I’ve also seen numerous instances of lost elk where the bullet did not exit and the hunter was unable to recover the animal because of a lack of a blood trail.
Accuracy alone doesn’t cut it! This is especially true on hard quartering shots. We only get one shot with a muzzy (most of the time) on animals. Rifle hunters can keep sending lead till the animal is out of sight or on the ground.
Of corse we all know there is no “perfect” anything. To me the ideal muzzy bullet for any particular species is sufficiently accurate, expands, creates massive damage to vitals and exits for a good blood trail if needed. That’s a tall order in many cases.
I agree with your bottom line, Mtn Monkey. And…..I too have stopped shooting Barnes and Partitions for the most part because they aren’t as accurate as I’d like in my rifles.
I don't hunt very well around people like that one of the reasons why I primarily hunt alone.
I've seen deer hit with a 12ga slug & have its whole lower intestines draggin the ground & run over 100yds. I've seen them heart shot with slugs & run over 100yds. I've seen them double lung shot & run 250-300yds too.Last season with sml Most of the deer I shot (rib cage) had fist size entrance and exit, no tracking drt. This is with xtp mag 240gr and 245gr interlock bullets. Properly placed shots with frangible bullets don't damage enough meat to worry about ime. I do however like copper solids and have had both drt and also had them go as far as 125yds with a through both shoulders shot. Deer can be tough, they are running on adrenaline til they pass out from lack of oxygen to the brain and can travel a good distance in 8 seconds with no heart.
I understand the value of what a heavy bullet does at longer ranges & slower MV's T that that is far more utilized in ML shooting than CF shooting. Since I only hunt with ML's & am finally into the 21st century of what muzzleloading & its bullets have evolved into, I prefer to push for more CF ballistics with lighter bullets at faster, flatter trajectories with much less flight time from muzzle to target & take all that hydrostatic shock they do. I think its great that you are open to the never-ending learning curve of always tryin new bullets & loads out in diff barrels & barrel twists. And the never-ending plight for one hole groups. I've learned from you that 3-5 shot groups are strictly for the shooters confidence in his ability to shoot consistently. 2 shot groups are for the security of knowing that your gun will have the same repeatability in your follow-up shot if needed or to take more than one critter down. I found that knowledge & philosophy very valuable.I've never hunted elk,, in all of my muzzleloaders I try to hone in on the most accurate and also the heaviest bullet my rifle will shoot,, I guess I can explain that a little further I shoot the heaviest bullet that I can consistently handle on the bench I know if I can handle that heavy recoil there in the field it's going to be nothing I try to shoot the heaviest bullet possible not so much for bullet performance, expansion etc, but for BC sectional density and carrying energy down range,, and yes that certainly part of a bullet's performance . In my 1 and 28 twist factory rifles I stay for the most part with a 250 to 275 grain bullet,, in the one in 2012 and the one in 18 and some of the faster twist rifles I'm always trying to shoot the heaviest bullet that I can put in a single hole,, I don't obsess so much on three shot and five shot groups even though I shoot them a lot ,I really look for two shots touching out of a cold barrel, that's the most I'm going to get in the field hunting. I'm always looking for a new bullet to shoot or something that other muzzleloaders may have passed up available Nationwide you'd be surprised what's out there if you beat the bushes,, should be shooting some 400 grain bullets this weekend I think they would be devastating on elk I'll let everyone know.
Reminds me of an incident about 4 years ago when I was hunting with my Remington Ultimate in late season (late December or January). I had about an 80 yard broad side shot on a big mature 10pt- I fired and he just stood there. I had never missed a deer with that gun and I was dumbfounded. I had my 500 S&W pistol with me so I didn't reload. I fired and that hit him (came to find it only hit the underside of his belly and just blew some hair off him fortunately). At that point I reloaded my muzzy and continued to hunt. A coyote came in and I took about a 50 yard shot at him- totally missed. I went home to see what was up, because I knew something wasn't right. I came to find that the barrel had become slightly loose from the stock and I couldn't even put a bullet on paper. After tightening it back up and a few shots I was back within an inch group at 100 yrds. I never saw that buck again, but a lesson in frequently checking your guns/bows/scopes/all equipment.Just a little bit more on the two touching,, when I'm working up a load I really search for a two touching load,, but some of that is just the personality of a particular barrel,, doesn't take long to figure that out, if my barrel needs to be fouled to do the two shot touching I'm certainly going to be hunting with a foul barrel,, if I'm fortunate enough to have a really great barrel that shoots a clean bore in the same place as the next bullet then I'm going to hunt with that too. Now if the barrels and guns I'm shooting are stacking three shot groups and five shot groups well that's just all more the better it's telling me a lot about my barrel's abilities but I'm talking about hunting accuracy and hunting expectations,,, I better not need a five shot one hole gun when I'm hunting,, even though I may demand it! However I really like knowing I have that two shot touching gun sitting in my lap.,,,, How many of you out walking ,,not sitting in a deer stand have walked up on a big buck thought you had the deer in your sights pull the trigger and just flat missed him and the deer stood there and let you reload and got a second shot off,, happened to me a couple of years ago with one of my one hole guns I'm sure it was just the gun and not me ,,no it was me,,, the deer made a fool out of me and actually laughed out loud before he turned and walked off all the fancy target shooting and ego,, all the one hole groups and fancy loads and I couldn't hit the side of a barn with a bomb,,, sometimes a perfect bullet just isn't enough is it,,, I sure like believing in my rifle and my bullet. That means a lot to me.
Always something to learn no matter the subject.I would hope we all do. Ive been hunting for 35 years and there is always more to learn.
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