What do you think of the Firestick/Nitrofire system?

[ourway77]

How about the Knight Revolution I already have -- decent gun?

I shot about 20 rounds at the range before the season opened, and had issues with flyers. I was shooting 5-round groups and usually four were in a good group and one was way off. It wasn't always the first or second shot after cleaning. I was using 209 primers and two 777 preformed powder pellets, with Powerbelt all-copper bullets.

Ditch the pellets and the powerbelts

 

[JIMYJAC]

Went to a shop and they had fire sticks $30+ for 5 charges.

 

[bronko220002]

Definition of a ML is charge and powder are loaded through the muzzle. This then is not a muzzleloader. IMO it is a hybrid between a muzzleloader and cartridge rifle. Personally I don't like them. Never did care for Traditions guns for one. Won a Traditions inline at a gun raffle and it was a POS. And the cost to shot the Nitrofire is close to $3 a pop! and the firestick isn't reusable.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Definition of a ML is charge and powder are loaded through the muzzle. This then is not a muzzleloader. IMO it is a hybrid between a muzzleloader and cartridge rifle.

Last year somebody decided to change the definition in North Carolina to make this thing legal in my state.

Before the change, the rule said the bullet and the powder had to be loaded through the muzzle. The excuse given for the change was that the NitroFire type system is "safer".

 

[fourbore]

Reading all 6 pages over 2 years,... why is it the charge capsule cannot be reloaded? The plastic?

If this is such a "great idea" then some competitor (like CVA) should introduce a model with a chamber for 45/70 or 50/70 brass that we can load up and top with a card or wads and card as needed. I am curius what can be done with a chamber reamer to convert one of these Traditions to something more reloader friendly. Although not curious to enough to buy one. Live 50/90(?) ammo will not chamber due to the bore restriction. So; there should be no idiot proof safety concern using some kind of real brass.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

Reading all 6 pages over 2 years,... why is it the charge capsule cannot be reloaded? The plastic?

The plastic sure doesnt seem like it will survive the firing. If someone did want to make a reloadable cartridge for it, i think a thickwall brass cartridge wouldnt be to hard to build. But think about what would happen to that gun if somebody filled it full of smokeless.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Reading all 6 pages over 2 years,... why is it the charge capsule cannot be reloaded? The plastic?

If this is such a "great idea" then some competitor (like CVA) should introduce a model with a chamber for 45/70 or 50/70 brass that we can load up and top with a card or wads and card as needed. I am curius what can be done with a chamber reamer to convert one of these Traditions to something more reloader friendly. Although not curious to enough to buy one. Live 50/90(?) ammo will not chamber due to the bore restriction. So; there should be no idiot proof safety concern using some kind of real brass.

I think it can be reloaded with BH209, but I do not know if anyone has done it yet. It is just a matter of time.

 

[fourbore]

The plastic sure doesnt seem like it will survive the firing. If someone did want to make a reloadable cartridge for it, i think a thickwall brass cartridge wouldnt be to hard to build. But think about what would happen to that gun if somebody filled it full of smokeless.

Yes, but; that is true with any muzzle loader. A determined idiot can blow up any gun. Then again, I am more than fine with what I have now. Time will tell.

 

[MrTom]

I see packages of these loads in stores and shops around here and shudder at the cost. This is supposed to be a fun sport, not a financial liability.

 

[bronko220002]

I watched some videos on these just out of curiosity and the charge is encapsulated in the "case" and the case is crimped much like a shotgun case. I don't know what the flashhole looks like nor the chamber. The charge looks like it has some type of sealant over it to keep it waterproof. I imagine if you had a means to cut it down and crimp it you could put T7 or Pyro pellets into it if the diameter allowed it. because the case sets rim in the chamber. That would cut your cost down a bit on shooting it.

 

[4stringdude]

I think this discussion about reloading these cartridges is all academic. If you are going to invest in this proprietary rifle/powder system, you are going to buy the powder cartridges. Unless you pick up one of these rifles on the cheap, you probably won't find yourself trying to reload the cartridges.

For me the question is, "what is the true advantage of this system?" How much quicker can it be reloaded compared to a traditional or inline muzzleloader? Fast enough to get a second shot at a running deer? I doubt it. I can reload quick enough to get a second shot at a standing/walking deer. I don't need a gimmick to make that happen.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

I think this discussion about reloading these cartridges is all academic. If you are going to invest in this proprietary rifle/powder system, you are going to buy the powder cartridges. Unless you pick up one of these rifles on the cheap, you probably won't find yourself trying to reload the cartridges.

For me the question is, "what is the true advantage of this system?" How much quicker can it be reloaded compared to a traditional or inline muzzleloader? Fast enough to get a second shot at a running deer? I doubt it. I can reload quick enough to get a second shot at a standing/walking deer. I don't need a gimmick to make that happen.

When shotgun shells first became available the same choice existed. Most people went down to the hardware store and bought shells to be used one time.
However, others decided to figure out a way to reload this new invention.
I have a shotshell reloader.

Many of us here also reload centerfire cases on a regular basis. To me it seems the logical next step would be to reload this new cartridge. However, others will use them one time and throw the empty cartridge in the trash. Traditions is putting their hopes on the latter group.

.

 

[MrTom]

others will use them one time and throw the empty cartridge in the trash.

Or leave them in the woods. I found one last fall.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I watched some videos on these just out of curiosity and the charge is encapsulated in the "case" and the case is crimped much like a shotgun case. I don't know what the flashhole looks like nor the chamber. The charge looks like it has some type of sealant over it to keep it waterproof. I imagine if you had a means to cut it down and crimp it you could put T7 or Pyro pellets into it if the diameter allowed it. because the case sets rim in the chamber. That would cut your cost down a bit on shooting it.

The seal over the powder charge is just a black plastic disk like a poly wad

The seal at the primer flash hole tho is molded over thin plastic. Once fired i dont think powder will stay in the 'case' unless a primer is inserted.

I bet a skilled 3D printer operator could make them cheaply, still not reusable tho, but loading might take a little experimenting.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I think this discussion about reloading these cartridges is all academic. If you are going to invest in this proprietary rifle/powder system, you are going to buy the powder cartridges. Unless you pick up one of these rifles on the cheap, you probably won't find yourself trying to reload the cartridges.

For me the question is, "what is the true advantage of this system?" How much quicker can it be reloaded compared to a traditional or inline muzzleloader? Fast enough to get a second shot at a running deer? I doubt it. I can reload quick enough to get a second shot at a standing/walking deer. I don't need a gimmick to make that happen.

I think there might be more advantages to the right person. Not having to measure anything, no speedloaders, no cleanup after, not worrying about crushing pellets and changing poi. Just throw a bunch of the pre-primed cartridges in a pocket and go. For the once a year ML shooter who doesnt give it a second though for 11 months it could be a great system. Someone that doesnt enjoy all that muzzleloaders mean to us few obsessive compulsives, ex-felons, or loners that need a hobby. I think there are as many potential buyers of this system as there are for Power Belt bullets, WE know there's better options but many don't need better.

 

[4stringdude]

Yeah, I get it. In addition to shooting muzzleloaders, I also reload cartridges. My point was more to people who don't already own a firestick rifle. Which, unless I've missed something, is pretty much everyone on this forum.

I suppose it is an interesting exercise to wonder if the firestick can be reloaded. It's also sort of fun to know what's inside the cartridge.

 

[rusticbob]

I don’t like the idea of the Firestick. Sounds like a sure fire way to get our (Muzzleloader/ Primitive) firearms seasons shortened!

 

[michiganmuzzy]

OurML season has already been messed with and now you can use any legal firearm.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

The seal at the primer flash hole tho is molded over thin plastic. Once fired i dont think powder will stay in the 'case' unless a primer is inserted.

a piece of single-ply toilet paper should do the job.
You could put a tiny daub of paste glue on it around the circumference, in order to hold in in place. Then put the powder on top of it.
When the primer fires it will tear a hole through the tissue paper and ignite the powder.

However, if you expect it to be waterproof it would require a thin plastic or wax paper.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

a piece of single-ply toilet paper should do the job.
You could put a tiny daub of paste glue on it around the circumference, in order to hold in in place. Then put the powder on top of it.
When the primer fires it will tear a hole through the tissue paper and ignite the powder.

However, if you expect it to be waterproof it would require a thin plastic or wax paper.

I think the bullet end doesnt have enough material to survive firing, to be re-rollcrimped, but ive never seen a spent one yet.