What's the reaL STORY?

[Two Feathers]

Everybody who shoots with BP knows to be careful. (well almost) I'm sure you trained the doc to be safe.

Pete
Just a note of update. I went to my buddy's gun shop and got a pound of Graf and sons 3FFF. MAN... the can sure doesn't look like a pound!!??? I remember when I got Goex in a rectangular can that looked like a paint thinner can, but at least that LOOKED like a pound! We'll see how it goes? I live in the suburbs so I can't shoot here, :no: but I can try flashing the pan out on my deck just to be sure that this is gonna' work? :cheers: Thanks again.
God bless:
Stoney

 

[AndyinEverson]

I prime from my "main horn"...and do all of my shooting with 2F
If...
You have a quality lock...
Sharp flint...
Clean vent...
Good "Lock Geometry"...
And wipe the pan , flint and frizzen after each shot...
Priming with 2F or 3F shouldn't be a problem.
And , yes I understand that I said "If".....
Andy

 

[burlesontom]

How much did the Graf & Sons powder cost you? It should have been a little less than the Goex. I think it runs around $16 on their website. I bought Elephant brand powder from them back in the early 1990s and while some have stated its not very good powder I never noticed. It went off and sent the ball down range and hit the target just like the Goex I had. And back then I paid around $6 a pound IIRC. I still have some too.

Thats one of the great things about BP. Keep it dry and it last forever. At least a couple of centuries anyway. The NRA always cautioned if have a rifle from the revolutionary war and its loaded and primed from that time consider it ready to go and treat it with the same respect as if you had just loaded it.

My bud kept a 36 Colt Navy replica loaded for a year and then tested it. Only one cylinder sounded a little weak. The other five gave a nice big instant boom. Even the weak charge went right off with no hangfire.

 

[Two Feathers]

Gentlemen
 I paid $26.45 for a pound of Graf and sons 3FFF powder. My buddy doesn't sell Goex? I thought he did. He said the Goex is a little "weaker" than Grafs? I suspect that he just gets a better deal on Grafs? I've known the guy since 1977. He's a good guy, BUT he's a businessman FIRST!!! And business people put money ahead of friendship. I don't feel bad, he charges everyone that price.
Now... before y'all start goin' off about how much I paid; as opposed to online, remember, I don't have a reason to spend $16.00 a pound for 5 pounds of powder, nor can I afford it and I don't care to? This is for someone else, and he just wants to be able to shoot and hunt. If he wants to buy 10 pounds of BP later, I'll tell him where to get it; cheaper. I don't shoot anymore due to my stroke, so any amount of powder over of a pan full would be a waste of money for me.
 I have a half a pound of 2FF in my horn from 1977, and (I believe) she'll still Blow, so I'm good....IF I did decide to go kill some paper! I'll just grind up about a teaspoon full for my Fraknenflint pan and have at it. Thanks again guys.
God bless:
Stoney

 

[patocazador]

I like Graf's (Schuetzen) powder a little bit better than GOEX. It seems more uniform in the granulation. Of course, the slight price difference helps too.

 

[Two Feathers]

I like Graf's (Schuetzen) powder a little bit better than GOEX. It seems more uniform in the granulation. Of course, the slight price difference helps too.

Mornin' Bob
 I didn't know that Grafs was made by Schuetzen? I thought it was it's own company? I never really looked at my powder? If it went "BANG" it was good enough for me.  :cheers: I know when I told my buddy at the gun shop that I bought Pyrodex for my Doctor last year, I thought he was going to scream... and the Eye rolls he gave me, said it all !  :no: I guess I know what he thinks about sub.!
 He started his BP business back in the 70's when I got into it and there was NOTHING but real BP, NO subs. then, so I understand his response. :slaps:    I have to get back to work on my hunting and priming horns and the new knife that I'm making.
I can't get away from my hospital and doctor's long enough to get anything done? I get about 8 emails a day from one or the other?
Thanks.
God bless:
Dave

 

[Buck Conner1]

I have only had a chance to shoot some of the hottest black powder ever, "Green River Powder".  This made all the others take a backseat to this stuff, had aluminum powder in the mix, talk about fast WOW.

The company didn't last very long (a few years at most) all because of an employee not following the safety rules, (he was a GRRW employee and worked at the powder manufacturing plant part time). 

Cleated heels on biker boots and black powder don't mix, it was figured that's what made the spark and all hell broke loose ending the short lived business. I saw one of their powder cans for sale a few weeks ago, it sold to a collector for over $1,000.00 bucks.

SEE: https://www.frontiermuzzleloading.com/t10846-green-river-black-powder?highlight=green+river+blackpowder

 

[Two Feathers]

Howdy Buck
 I remember that we discussed powder plant explosions in the past. I think I remember you talking about that one. I told you about the one here in Wapwallopen, PA. at the DuPont Powder Works.
 I CAN tell you that we had explosions and fires here when I was a kid from the dust while "putting up" hay in the barns.
 
I can't say from experience, but I've been told (by people I think would know?), that if you put aluminum powder in a flash pan, a good spark will set it off? I know they say that Aluminum Dust is VERY unstable, so it makes sense? It's not a good idea because Aluminum Dust is Toxic if you breath the vapors when it burns. Just my $.02
 I'm not a chemical engineer, so I can't confirm the Aluminum Dust Explosion theory? But AGAIN... it makes sense to me.
Stoney

 

[BrownBear]

... if I have 4F in my pan and Pyrodex in the barrel, will the 4F create enough heat to ignite the Pyrodex? No one seems to be able to give me a straight answer on this, or doesn't want to.

Never tried it that way, but only because I haven't had any reason to do it. I just put a couple of drizzles (3 grains each) of 4f from my pan charger down the bore before dropping in the Pyrodex. Then I charge the pan as normal with the 4f. Always works and ignition is as fast and reliable as with a straight load of black in the barrel.  It's costing me and "extra" 6 grains of 4f per shot, I've been able to afford that so far!  

 

[Rick N Bama1]

... if I have 4F in my pan and Pyrodex in the barrel, will the 4F create enough heat to ignite the Pyrodex? No one seems to be able to give me a straight answer on this, or doesn't want to.

Never tried it that way, but only because I haven't had any reason to do it. I just put a couple of drizzles (3 grains each) of 4f from my pan charger down the bore before dropping in the Pyrodex. Then I charge the pan as normal with the 4f. Always works and ignition is as fast and reliable as with a straight load of black in the barrel.  It's costing me and "extra" 6 grains of 4f per shot, I've been able to afford that so far!  

When my Grandson first got his Lyman Trade rifle all he had to use was Pyrodex.  When him & his Dad couldn't get it to fire they called and I headed over with a can of Goex 3f.  We used that in the Pan and yes, it did light the Pyrodex in the barrel.  We continued the Pyrodex in the barrel and the Goex in the Pan.  He uses KIK 2F in the barrel and Goex 4F in the pan.

 

[Two Feathers]

... if I have 4F in my pan and Pyrodex in the barrel, will the 4F create enough heat to ignite the Pyrodex? No one seems to be able to give me a straight answer on this, or doesn't want to.

Never tried it that way, but only because I haven't had any reason to do it. I just put a couple of drizzles (3 grains each) of 4f from my pan charger down the bore before dropping in the Pyrodex. Then I charge the pan as normal with the 4f. Always works and ignition is as fast and reliable as with a straight load of black in the barrel.  It's costing me and "extra" 6 grains of 4f per shot, I've been able to afford that so far!  

When my Grandson first got his Lyman Trade rifle all he had to use was Pyrodex.  When him & his Dad couldn't get it to fire they called and I headed over with a can of Goex 3f.  We used that in the Pan and yes, it did light the Pyrodex in the barrel.  We continued the Pyrodex in the barrel and the Goex in the Pan.  He uses KIK 2F in the barrel and Goex 4F in the pan.

Rick N Bama
Thanks, I appreciate your reply. I have, however, eliminated my anxiety but getting my doctor a pound of Graf's 3FFF true Black. I doubt that there will be any issues with this? I have NEVER used a BP sub, and I'm not sure that I want to? I have enough Goex from 1977 for me to do any shooting if I decide to. My concern was removing any possible confusion or disaster from my Doctor's first time experience with a Flintlock using 2 different powders. We've managed to resolve that issue with just the one pound of 3FFF Graf's. Tomorrow at 11:00 am (my time, est) we'll find out how this thing shoots. I built him a .50 cal. percussion last year and exactly one year later I built him an exact twin in Flint. Thank you for your reply.
God bless:
Stoney1

 

[Muley Hunter]

Graf's is a good powder. I prefer it over Goex. It's made by Schuetzen. (Wano) They use Buckthorn Alder wood for the charcoal. Just like Swiss powder does too.

It burns cleaner than Goex and has just a bit more power. Cheaper too as a bonus. Graf's buys it in bulk and puts it in their containers.

It's a shame local shops jack up the prices so high.

 

[Two Feathers]

Graf's is a good powder. I prefer it over Goex. It's made by Schuetzen. (Wano) They use Buckthorn Alder wood for the charcoal. Just like Swiss powder does too.

It burns cleaner than Goex and has just a bit more power. Cheaper too as a bonus. Graf's buys it in bulk and puts it in their containers.

It's a shame local shops jack up the prices so high.

Thanks Pete.
 I agree, but I'm not paying for it, so it doesn't hurt QUITE as much! I just found out 2 days ago that Graf's is made by Schuetzen. I used to make my own BP. I used flowers of Sulfur, Potassium Nitrate (salt peter), and Botanical grade powdered Charcoal. I got it all from my local Pharmacy. These days if I bought that stuff, I'd have Homeland Security pounding on my door. I remember the pharmacist asking me, " do you have ANY idea what will happen if you mix these things together?" :shock:  I said "Yup." :Lights:  I can still see the look on his face when I close my eyes.
Thanks Pete.
Be good.
Stoney

 

[Muley Hunter]

They started to crack down on black powder ever since the Boston bombing that used black powder. You'll notice now the bottles of powder have a serial number. They can keep track of who's buying it now.

 

[Two Feathers]

They started to crack down on black powder ever since the Boston bombing that used black powder. You'll notice now the bottles of powder have a serial number. They can keep track of who's buying it now.

Hey Pete.
 I heard that, but what's weird is that Wal mart and my buddy NEVER asked for ID. NO name, no nuthin" just paid and skeedaddled. I can tell you that the store owner never tried to give me my receipt. I guess he was just going to pocket the money and claim that the receipt was a bad one that he had to void and rewrite later? I had to ask for it then he said, "I know you, you don't need it." I said yeah, but it's not for me, I need it to give to the guy I'm buying the powder for." He reluctantly handed it to me,  but I think he hadn't intended to? Now he'll have to show the sale on his tax records. :ttups:

Oh well.
Stoney

 

[Muley Hunter]

Yeah, it's always suspicious when they don't want to give a receipt.

 

[Two Feathers]

Yeah, it's always suspicious when they don't want to give a receipt.

Pete
Yeah... I get a little Squeamish about those sorts of things too. That NEVER seems like a good idea!

 

[Rick N Bama1]

Graf's is a good powder. I prefer it over Goex. It's made by Schuetzen. (Wano) They use Buckthorn Alder wood for the charcoal. Just like Swiss powder does too.

It burns cleaner than Goex and has just a bit more power. Cheaper too as a bonus. Graf's buys it in bulk and puts it in their containers.

It's a shame local shops jack up the prices so high.

Have you ever shot any KIK?  I'm now wondering if it & Graf's might be one in the same?  I can't say that KIK is cleaner than Goex, but I do think it ignites faster and may have a bit more power than Goex, plus it's some bit cheaper.

 

[Two Feathers]

Graf's is a good powder. I prefer it over Goex. It's made by Schuetzen. (Wano) They use Buckthorn Alder wood for the charcoal. Just like Swiss powder does too.

It burns cleaner than Goex and has just a bit more power. Cheaper too as a bonus. Graf's buys it in bulk and puts it in their containers.

It's a shame local shops jack up the prices so high.

Have you ever shot any KIK?  I'm now wondering if it & Graf's might be one in the same?  I can't say that KIK is cleaner than Goex, but I do think it ignites faster and may have a bit more power than Goex, plus it's some bit cheaper.

Rick N Bama
 Never heard of KIK powder until I started this discussion. I used Goex back in the 70's and always LOVED it for fast ignition, and power. I was hoping to see how good this Graf's is this morning, but it's raining like the Devil here, so it may have to wait another week? Take care and thanks for your input.
God bless:
Stoney

 

[Muley Hunter]

Graf's is a good powder. I prefer it over Goex. It's made by Schuetzen. (Wano) They use Buckthorn Alder wood for the charcoal. Just like Swiss powder does too.

It burns cleaner than Goex and has just a bit more power. Cheaper too as a bonus. Graf's buys it in bulk and puts it in their containers.

It's a shame local shops jack up the prices so high.

Have you ever shot any KIK?  I'm now wondering if it & Graf's might be one in the same?  I can't say that KIK is cleaner than Goex, but I do think it ignites faster and may have a bit more power than Goex, plus it's some bit cheaper.

 I wasn't aware they still made or sold KIK powder. No, I never tried it. My favorite powder is Swiss but the prices have gotten stupid lately.