CVA Paramount Update

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ENCORE50A said:
Unfortunately BPI is still turning a blind eye to the leaking problems, claiming that the heavier spring FIXES all the issues. Just ask Dudley McGarity, manager at BPI Outdoors.
Dudley is so adamant that it completely FIXES ALL LEAKS, he'll argue or delete people or posts from the CVA Paramount page. Mention a permanent fix with an Gen2 breech plug, and you're trolling and/or banned. BPI isn't going to admit they made a mistake, nor concede that even with the stiffer springs people still have leaks. They have a great rifle, just admit it needs tweeking and correct ALL the leaks once and for all.
Fortunately, other sites for the Paramount are showing up. They are not places where a member gets banned just because his problem wasn't corrected.

As for a brake...……. I'm not taking a single thing away from the quality of all the builders but...…… you'll never regret one of the LR Customs brakes. Levi and put a brake on a pencil that works!
Click to expand...

Do you have a link to this CVA Paramount page?

They are not alone in this. Lots of great factory rifles out there, ignition systems, not so much!

Knight has had over 20 years to fix theirs, and Remington has had over 5 years to fix theirs, yet not a wimper about it.

I'm sure CVA has signed a licensing agreement for a period of time with the Variflames, give them 5 or 20 years to come to their senses. Maybe they never will, either?
 
ENCORE50A said:
Unfortunately BPI is still turning a blind eye to the leaking problems, claiming that the heavier spring FIXES all the issues. Just ask Dudley McGarity, manager at BPI Outdoors.
Dudley is so adamant that it completely FIXES ALL LEAKS, he'll argue or delete people or posts from the CVA Paramount page. Mention a permanent fix with an Gen2 breech plug, and you're trolling and/or banned. BPI isn't going to admit they made a mistake, nor concede that even with the stiffer springs people still have leaks. They have a great rifle, just admit it needs tweeking and correct ALL the leaks once and for all.
Fortunately, other sites for the Paramount are showing up. They are not places where a member gets banned just because his problem wasn't corrected.

As for a brake...……. I'm not taking a single thing away from the quality of all the builders but...…… you'll never regret one of the LR Customs brakes. Levi and put a brake on a pencil that works!
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ENCORE50A said:
Here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/498407667366865/
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I did a little snooping around, and they clearly have a rules of conduct posted on their page.

Screenshot_20191203-104600~2.png


There are posts about things that would be in violation of their rules. As a matter of fact, without trying to hard, some you have participated in. This one has been on there for over 3 weeks. Read all replies.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/49840...link&id=581289875745310&anchor_composer=false


1 month.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/49840...link&id=565441670663464&anchor_composer=false


Looks like a bit of advertising to me. Pay attention to replies with pics by James S. READ THIS ONE IF NOTHING ELSE.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/49840...link&id=543115206229444&anchor_composer=false


Looks like Dudley has been pretty tolerant of folks to me George?

https://m.facebook.com/groups/49840...link&id=545048902702741&anchor_composer=false

For someone who publicly proclaims he wants nothing to do with CVA/BPI, you sure wouldn't know it.

Is this one of them, "keep your friends close, and your enemies closer", things?


I just don't see what you stated in your post here about posts and participants being deleted, to be factual of what I've read over there. Dudley even participated in many of those posts with replies. I'll agree he is promoting the stronger spring as the fix, but what other choice does he have? I did read something in there about the New 2020 rifle possibly having a different ignition system. I guess we'll just have to wait and see?

I did see a LOT of very nice animals falling to the Paramount, at some VERY long ranges. So suffice it to say, even if WE don't personally like the ignition system, it seems to be working pretty well for hunters.

Many more where they came from.
 
ENCORE50A said:
As you said, some posts he left intact others, were deleted. Sounds like you prefer to imply that I and James S. are the bad guys, when you clearly stated above is that it included several others also. Sounds like you have a beef, again? I guess that's why other sites have been created so one doesn't get so easily offended.

Ergonomics...……… I find it funny as heck that you're trying to explain ergonomics to a retired ergonomist. Not everybody's bodies are built the same? No kidding! Its called the study of anthropometrics. The reason for all the cumulative trauma you mentioned, is that managers and engineers had/have no clue, are not trained in ergonomics or anthropometrics. If it works, its fine for them. Hundreds of engineers learned more when their babies were called ugly and they were stopped in their tracks until approved.

Knight and Remington FB pages...…. I'm friends on FB with Justin Perry. Just wished him happy birthday 12hrs ago by the way. Unlike you, I support Knight rifles fully. However, I also want to see more shooting competition between manufacturers. That, should be anyone's goal at organized events. Woops, forgot you don't like organized events.
You do remember at least one Paramount trying at Friendship, and how the guy had miserable issues with a leaking ignition system?
Now for the Remington Ultimate FB site...……….. I frequent it daily, post on it regularly. It was created after it's administrator joined the Ultimate site I created years back. We discuss on either site, problems, improvements, good, bad, and in-between. Neither site is limited to exclusively brand only and nobody gets their posts deleted or banned for posting a problem or non-OEM fix.

As for the Ultimate and Ken, Ken knows my exact feelings concerning the ignition on both the UF and RUM. We've discussed it many times over lunch. As for the UF, when the head space was set correct, there was no nightmare. That's a simple fact known by owners and people who actually have experience with the rifle. As for BH209 in either rifle, it was never an approved propellant for either. RW started the BH kick and it turned into a mess for both Remington and rifle owners. The use of BH has NEVER been approved in the RUM manual. Now what you don't know or understand is, many RUM shooters are shooting BH through their rifles and NOT gas cutting nipples and they do know Remington will not warrant the breech plug. The warrantee issue is only breech plug related. They have chosen to shoot their rifles up to the point that the nipple does gas cut, then go to the Gen2 ignition system.

If anyone wants a rifle that doesn't come out of the box needing something, regardless of manufacturer, then I would highly recommend that they look into having a custom built by one of the many top builders.

I find it interesting, that right here on MM, we, which certainly includes you, discuss problems, fixes, improvements and share data on a daily basis. It also appears you have considerable knowledge about how to fix a CVA. Don't get so offended when issues with CVA are brought up. It might be nice if you didn't hammer on Knight all the time too.
Click to expand...
i whole heartly agree with every thing you said. I too wish to see it at Friendship and they were invited , and was ask by fellow with the Paramount , about leaking
 
Busta said:
You said a "quick", dependable fix, because you had a hunt in 3 days. I don't have a Paramount, but if the bolt head is headspaced by a compressible spring, it may be possible to get a thin o-ring that lets you put a primer into battery without further modification. I don't know if the spring only compresses so far then hits a solid wall, or compresses beyond any useful tolerance? You may have to go to a shorter Remington STS primer with a wide radius on the nose, or one of the much shorter European primers?

Personally, if you already have a load worked up, I would hunt with it as is for this hunt, then find a more blowback free alternative in the off season.

The rifle works as designed, and it's crunch time for your hunt. You don't want to open a can of worms with only a day or two to figure it out. We can discuss this further after your hunt, or this winter.

Good luck on your hunt!
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct!! I was with Bobby Hart shooting when the first blowback happened. Bobby and i changed out the spring to a new one that BPI sent me. This did not solve the issue.
Bobby gave the same advise as you . Hunt with it and then figure it out when you get home.

When we returned to his shop i immediately picked out a stock, flute pattern, action, and barrel for a custom rig. i wont be going through this madness next year.

Dad always said Buy once Cry once..
 
New member here, I ended up getting a Paramount, in large part to the reviews I read on this post. This seems to be the most productive post on the Paramount that I have come across. Just wanted to add in my experience thus far with the Paramount.

I am by no stretch of the word an expert in muzzleloading and am your average Joe in shooting. I am currently using the variflame system and shot 9 out of the 10 included variflames yesterday on my first trip out with the new ML. I would say each of the modules had light residue left on them after being fired. I was asking an employee at Scheels about the variflames leaking and about the heavier springs, he told me that CVA sent them heavier springs and that they went through and replaced all the weaker springs in their inventory and this of course fixed the blowback issues. After getting the ML home, the bolt was in a sealed package from the manufacturer. So either CVA sent them all new bolts to replace the weaker spring or the employee was blowing smoke up my a**.

Regardless, the variflames seemed to leak pretty minimally for me but i must say it is a pain to have to go through and clean each of the modules before re-priming. For some of you who have used the upgraded system through arrowhead, is the cleaning of the each module still needed after firing a single primer through them?

Accuracy was what i expected from reading these posts, by far the most accurate ML that I have owned and shot. Like I said, I will not claim to be anything more than I am, your average Joe shooter. I was shooting 140 grV of Blackhorn each weighed out to 98 grains on a scale, 280 grain Powerbelt ELR. I ran a bore snake through the barrel after every 3 shots. My 5th shot was where I wanted it at 100 yards, about 3.5" high. Shooting off of a lead sled, my next four shots on a new target were all touching each other at 100 yards. Needless to say, I am a happy camper with this set up and looking forward to putting a couple deer down and seeing how it performs terminally this late season. I'll try to report on its performance.


Pic is of the last 4 shots at 100 yards. By far the best group I have ever shot with a ML. Dont mind the 6.5 creedmore holes, a buddy was plinking at the same target.
 

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Sounds like CVA sent them new springs for all inventory, but did they really put them in, or are they waiting to see if you complain about any leaking first?

It may be possible that your rifle was shipped to them after CVA made the engineering changes for the heavier spring? You would think, a call to CVA would be able to confirm that by the serial number on your rifle? They would also be able to tell you if they replaced the whole bolt with one in a sealed package.

Still a better ignition system than a couple other factory rifles have on them, IMO. I know if I were to get one, I would solve any leaking problem right away on either the Variflame or the 209 primer breech plug. By using an o-ring in the primer pocket, a bushing under the bolt face, or both to address any headspace issues. Wouldn't take but a few minutes, as long as I had the correct diameter o-ring and bushing material.

Can someone post a side by side pic of both springs, the bolt face, and bolt body?

Great shooting, by the way, and there is always the option of trying the 209 primer breech plug, or switching to the ASG Gen II module, bolt face, and breech plug conversion.
 
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Nathan Walker said:
New member here, I ended up getting a Paramount, in large part to the reviews I read on this post. This seems to be the most productive post on the Paramount that I have come across. Just wanted to add in my experience thus far with the Paramount.

I am by no stretch of the word an expert in muzzleloading and am your average Joe in shooting. I am currently using the variflame system and shot 9 out of the 10 included variflames yesterday on my first trip out with the new ML. I would say each of the modules had light residue left on them after being fired. I was asking an employee at Scheels about the variflames leaking and about the heavier springs, he told me that CVA sent them heavier springs and that they went through and replaced all the weaker springs in their inventory and this of course fixed the blowback issues. After getting the ML home, the bolt was in a sealed package from the manufacturer. So either CVA sent them all new bolts to replace the weaker spring or the employee was blowing smoke up my a**.

Regardless, the variflames seemed to leak pretty minimally for me but i must say it is a pain to have to go through and clean each of the modules before re-priming. For some of you who have used the upgraded system through arrowhead, is the cleaning of the each module still needed after firing a single primer through them?

Accuracy was what i expected from reading these posts, by far the most accurate ML that I have owned and shot. Like I said, I will not claim to be anything more than I am, your average Joe shooter. I was shooting 140 grV of Blackhorn each weighed out to 98 grains on a scale, 280 grain Powerbelt ELR. I ran a bore snake through the barrel after every 3 shots. My 5th shot was where I wanted it at 100 yards, about 3.5" high. Shooting off of a lead sled, my next four shots on a new target were all touching each other at 100 yards. Needless to say, I am a happy camper with this set up and looking forward to putting a couple deer down and seeing how it performs terminally this late season. I'll try to report on its performance.


Pic is of the last 4 shots at 100 yards. By far the best group I have ever shot with a ML. Dont mind the 6.5 creedmore holes, a buddy was plinking at the same target.
Click to expand...

Nice shooting! I use ASG module plugs in my break actions and rarely clean the brass module primer pocket. Usually, I just deprime and reprime.
 
Thanks for the replies, I will more than likely look into getting the ASG Gen II system this spring, after deer season. Can't beat the simplicity of the 209 plug but in my Apex they are a pain to get out of the plug after 3 or so shots.
 
Can't believe this thread has hit 22 pages. But there is a lot of great info in it.

Overall, I'm pretty impressed with the results I've seen from the ELR bullet. BC isn't nearly as good as my XLD line, but it's better than an SST. And accuracy has been really good. I did have a couple of customers get fragmentation on them, but those shots were inside of 50 yards. So hard to not get that and still have a bullet that expands at 300+.

As far as the ASG modules go, just make sure you clean them before you put them away for long term as the BH209 residue will corrode them. But definitely no need to clean between shots to get them to work.
 
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I just got my new ( replacement scope ) yesterday from Optics Planet due to the Shepherd BRS 5-25x56 34mm IRMOA on back order until around Mar. 2020. They offered me a Vortex Viper PST
GEN II 5-25x50 IRMOA.
Mounted on ( my fav 1pc mount/rings DNZ Game Reaper.
I everything mounted up last night on my new Paramount that arrived this past Thur. I know it's " nothing special or spectacular " in the grand scheme of things. And there are many guys that can afford much better/much more expensive set ups than I. But this has been years in the making, planning, saving, researching, dreaming. So it's pretty darn special to me. I'm elated in fact.
I will be making big booms & smoke clouds today. I set up a 200yd shooting lane already. I don't have a gun rest of any kind anymore or spotting scope, or anything else anymore. I've never had a Chrony, will be changing that in the relatively near future.
Here are a few pics I took last night on the folks back porch. I promised Busta I'd get some pics posted when I got it all together. It it weren't for Busta's assistance & direction, I wouldn't have been able to put this together for the very limited amount of funds I have. A huge Thank you Busta for everything.
 

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Thank you kindly sir. Much appreciated. I really feel I owe a debt of gratitude to the MML community & the great folks on the paramount page in particular for en immense amount of knowledge & direction that led me to the paramount being my
" Final Answer ". This in total is an awesome group & I'm really honored, grateful, & elated to be a small part of it.
Busta said:
Very nice looking rig, Ninering62!
Click to expand...
 
GM54-120 said:
Should have asked about the Sightron SIII as an option vs the Vortex. They are a very tough scope with excellent glass.
Click to expand...
Hey there GM54-120, perhaps I should have consulted the group about price comparable/quality comparable options before agreeing to the Vortex Viper they offered me. They said it was thee best scope they had in the comparable price range of the Shepherd scope I initially ordered. I am a huge Shepherd scope fan, & completely unaware of the scope you just mentioned. Fortunately, this time, it didn't bite me in the backside & I'm pretty happy with the Viper.
On another rather popular note; the " Leaky Teaky " Variflames. I just happen to have a medium sized " O ring " assortment. I will be looking into implementing them like you brought up. I thought that was a great idea & for me, extremely economical to pursue some testing. I will post testing & results when I get to that. Kind regards bud, TY
 
Them SIIIs are being used by the SML boys on rigs that recoil much harder. Glass is better than the PST and track great too. Sightron from what i heard owns the factory that makes the SIIIs. They dont out source its production. Made in Japan and not the Philippines.

Quite a few guys with hard kicking SMLs have destroyed Vipers. Very few if any have wasted a SIII yet. So if you do have a failure just get the SIII and sell the Viper.

As far as o-rings, i would look into the PTFE high temp ones. They are more like a white washer. Material is much harder than a normal oring.
https://www.mcmaster.com/ptfe-washers
 
Ninering62 said:
I just got my new ( replacement scope ) yesterday from Optics Planet due to the Shepherd BRS 5-25x56 34mm IRMOA on back order until around Mar. 2020. They offered me a Vortex Viper PST
GEN II 5-25x50 IRMOA.
Mounted on ( my fav 1pc mount/rings DNZ Game Reaper.
I everything mounted up last night on my new Paramount that arrived this past Thur. I know it's " nothing special or spectacular " in the grand scheme of things. And there are many guys that can afford much better/much more expensive set ups than I. But this has been years in the making, planning, saving, researching, dreaming. So it's pretty darn special to me. I'm elated in fact.
I will be making big booms & smoke clouds today. I set up a 200yd shooting lane already. I don't have a gun rest of any kind anymore or spotting scope, or anything else anymore. I've never had a Chrony, will be changing that in the relatively near future.
Here are a few pics I took last night on the folks back porch. I promised Busta I'd get some pics posted when I got it all together. It it weren't for Busta's assistance & direction, I wouldn't have been able to put this together for the very limited amount of funds I have. A huge Thank you Busta for everything.
Click to expand...

You're welcome. You got a great deal on that rifle, and I don't think that price can be beat, unless you are a dealer. Some places are selling them for $400 more.

Sorry to hear that you couldn't get your Shepherd Scope, it sounded like a very nice 34mm scope. Don't let anyone poo-poo that Vortex Viper Scope, they are excellent scopes. I own 3 Vipers, and 2 are mounted on .450 Bushmasters. One on a bolt, and one on a tip-up.

If you ever do have a problem, there is no other company in the optics business that will beat their VIP Warranty or Customer Service. Bar None!

I owned a Sightron once. ONCE!


Been down that PTFE o-ring road over 10 years ago. Haven't been back since. Buna-N is cheap, and works, as well as several others in-between.

I think those Vipers hold zero pretty good for a rifle I only shoot once a year. Not cherry picked groups. Factory Bergara .450 1:24 twist with factory loads. It is what it is!


First 100 yard 3 shot group, with brake.
20170902_173102-1.jpg


First 100 yard 3 shot group, no brake.
20170902_185701.jpeg


2017 Zero Check.
20171111_203207.jpeg


2018 Zero Check.
20181112_175258.jpeg
 
Ninering62 said:
I just got my new ( replacement scope ) yesterday from Optics Planet due to the Shepherd BRS 5-25x56 34mm IRMOA on back order until around Mar. 2020. They offered me a Vortex Viper PST
GEN II 5-25x50 IRMOA.
Mounted on ( my fav 1pc mount/rings DNZ Game Reaper.
I everything mounted up last night on my new Paramount that arrived this past Thur. I know it's " nothing special or spectacular " in the grand scheme of things. And there are many guys that can afford much better/much more expensive set ups than I. But this has been years in the making, planning, saving, researching, dreaming. So it's pretty darn special to me. I'm elated in fact.
I will be making big booms & smoke clouds today. I set up a 200yd shooting lane already. I don't have a gun rest of any kind anymore or spotting scope, or anything else anymore. I've never had a Chrony, will be changing that in the relatively near future.
Here are a few pics I took last night on the folks back porch. I promised Busta I'd get some pics posted when I got it all together. It it weren't for Busta's assistance & direction, I wouldn't have been able to put this together for the very limited amount of funds I have. A huge Thank you Busta for everything.
Click to expand...

I wish you better luck with your Vortex Viper than i had with mine, I had that Exact same Model, It held up for a Few outings and then Wouldn’t Hold Zero?? Sent it back to Vortex, They replaced it with a Note “Internally Broke”

Had i of Seen this Review, I wouldn’t have Bought it. Go to 5:45 in the Vid, This guy is on Scope Number 4, If you scroll down through the Replies to Jim C, You will see My reply to him
 
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Not poo pooing Vortex at all. Got a DB HP sitting right next to me waiting on some Vortex rings right now. The simple fact is... the guys cranking out 300gr bullets over 2800fps in SMLs choose 2 scopes a lot. Sightron SIIIs and Nightforce....Why..because needing the warranty is far less common that needing the VIP warranty. Plus the Sightron gets really high marks for glass quality and tracking for under a grand.

I would by a Razor HD LH in a blink for the right price. But if im risking much over $500 on a really hard kicker its not gunna be on a Viper when i know i can buy tougher scopes made in Japan for the same $$$$s. I just went back to Midway hoping they still had the deal on the Viper HS.

So im pretty far from anti Vortex.
 

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