40 cal bullet for sabot in 45

[Underclocked]

My son has been shooting well this season and I'm looking for new bullets for him to hunt with. I have a ton of the 200 grain SST's and they are fine but feel like there could be a better bullet for blood trailing. The SST's have killed 2 deer but not leaving much blood. One deer was taken with a 200 grain bloodline which worked better but I'm out. 
I know of the 195 Barnes but don't have any which is the reason for the post. What are some other options?  These will be used strictly for hunting with muzzle velocities in the 1900-2100 FPS range. I'm not opposed to simple 45 sabot less choices either but remember he is only 9. The Barnes 250 works well but I don't know if I lower velocities to 1800 FPS if it will have to much recoil.

 

[GregK1]

Are you opposed to sabot less? That opens the door to a lot of 45 cal Bullets & the recoil difference should be minimal or even the same. Cutting edge has 30% off & free ship til midnight tonite & they make 2 ML bullets. A 165 grain & a 250 grain. These of course are premium bullets. They make a 40 cal that I use in my smokeless but I don't know how it would work in your barrel twist or velocity. I shoot them from my smokeless 40 cal. 

Other than knurling up  some 45 cal bullets it's SST 200, MZ 195, or Knight Bloodlines

 

[Underclocked]

Greg it's in the sml Apex, sabotless isn't out but I don't have a sizing die. I was unsure if the 45's would obtrute enough with a lower charge.  Can the CEB be used with a sabot?  Premium doesn't matter to me, the SST's will be used for practice.

 

[dlethcoe]

I believe it is a 40 cal bullet just like the sst 200's and the barnes 195, need to use a sabot, up side is they are 240 gr bullets.

Dave

 

[dlethcoe]

Here is the web site for it, like Greg said they are on sale until midnight tonight, 30% off and free shipping for 50.
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=MZL_400_240


Dave

 

[Underclocked]

The CEB looks promising.

 

[SCHUNTER1]

If I remember correctly the 240 CEB would not shoot in sabots for the guys that tried them.  You can search for information on Doug's.


Many people have success with the 200 gr. XTP

 

[Al-53]

If I remember correctly the 240 CEB would not shoot in sabots for the guys that tried them.  You can search for information on Doug's.


Many people have success with the 200 gr. XTP

that is correct....in a sabot they had a hard time getting them to fly right..as a full bore bullet for a .40 they did great....I know Carlos and Omega45 were one of the first to try them as a full bore bullet..and did very well with them...

now as a sabot bullet I like the speer gold dot 180 grain...nosler 200 grain and the XTP 200 grain bullets...all fly great...I just got another order from Wideners for some gold dots and Noslers..as my Knight .45 loves them...I have used the Noslers before but on coyotes..no deer tests..but terminal performance was super...and very accurate

I forgot...some like the SST also in a sabot...I think Carlos has them also...

hope this helps

Al

 

[Underclocked]

Good info SC and I will take a look, I wonder if they are too long for the sabots. 

Thanks Al for the other suggestions, I have always heard good reviews on the Speer but never remember them. I tend to do the same with Nosler. I'm assuming both of those are in the handgun line up. 

I liked the bloodlines but would rather buy bulk bullets and match with a sabot verses buying blister pack combos to save money. Plus I would have to order the bloodlines from Knight and pay the high shipping cost.

 

[Al-53]

you will best to buy bulk from Lehigh for blood lines....  http://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/bullets/products/400-controlled-fracturing-muzzleloader-215gr-bullet?variant=3172363652

better price also and you can use sabot of choice...I like the harvester blues...also most guys shooting smokeless use the same...just work better than the MMP...either the smooth sided or crush ribbed..have to see what the rifle likes....I used both with no difference in accuracy..but the crushed rib loads a bit easy on a tight bore....I assume your shooting a .45...

 

[Underclocked]

Yep Al it is a 45-70 conversion and have had no issues with the harvester blue. Haven't tried CR version. Sabot and single powder make it easier for us. As he gets bigger we will up the loads but for now I want to keep it simple and have him concentrate on accuracy. Most of the shots will be less than 125 yards so BC doesn't really matter. Since we are on public land we try not to let them go far after a hit so someone else gets a crack at them. 
A buddy had a doe get shot at from the ridge over and was a gut shot. It ran towards him and slowed and he hit it in the lungs and it ran 40 yards and piled up. The other hunter and a friend came over the ridge as he was preparing to field dress it and argued it was theirs. 2-1 he gave the deer up and headed back to camp. The area we are in doesn't seem to have hunters as close but you never know. Better blood means less travel and better recovery odds. The SST's just haven't been giving as much as the 290 grain Barnes or PT Golds like I am used to. All 3 deer have been hit in the front shoulder with pass through.

 

[Al-53]

to me BC comes into play when your shooting LONG range 300+ and compitition shooting long range....so at close range it does not come into play as much...Look at Carlos...he uses some low BC bullets and punches them to 600 yards and all are deer MOA....

I just got in some 180grn gold dots in .40...if you want to try some I can send u some...I have XTP also in 180...and have others i will have to see what is there..lol...maybe some Noslers...

 

[GregK1]

Greg it's in the sml Apex, sabotless isn't out but I don't have a sizing die. I was unsure if the 45's would obtrute enough with a lower charge.  Can the CEB be used with a sabot?  Premium doesn't matter to me, the SST's will be used for practice.

You can size or knurl the bullets to fit. I can't remember for sure but it seems that the Barnes TEZ 250 were .4515 & would fit nicely without any knurling. You'd have to try to see as there have been way too many guns & way too many bullets since then. If  you shoot it on a wad you should have no sealing issues & get all the performance that you need without any appreciable recoil. Also, I believe that any 452 would have to be resized before it would go down the barrel.

It just takes a bit of experimenting but it comes to life soon & sabotless just gives you so many more bullet options.

Greg

 

[SCHUNTER1]

Both 45/70 Apex barrels I had would take a 250 TEZ with just a slight knurl up.

 

[Underclocked]

Mine takes the 250 Barnes no knurling required. Can't get .452 XTP down the barrel. I haven't tried the FTX but assume it won't fit. If I get a 700 build I will get a sizing die but for now it's not in the plans.

 

[Al-53]

most times the barnes will come either .451 or 4505...some will fit my .45's good..some I have to slight knurl..my smokeless is .4495 so I have to size all bullets...

you should be good with any .451 bullet...  to be honest...i find that a saboted bullet and a non saboted bullet fly very close to each other...I just give a slight knurl on bullets going in sabot to have it grip sabot a bit better and a SLIGHTLY tighter fit...but still load easy..no hammer down loading...its all personal preference...with right load at the range your speaking of..they are BOTH killers...

 

[SCHUNTER1]

Mine takes the 250 Barnes no knurling required. Can't get .452 XTP down the barrel. I haven't tried the FTX but assume it won't fit. If I get a 700 build I will get a sizing die but for now it's not in the plans.

A bullet that fit mine from pack to bore was the 275 Ballistic Extreme which is a very good bullet at the speed you are talking about.

The .452 FTX would require sizing.

Scott

 

[dlethcoe]

The FTX is the same for my gun, they need to be resized to .450.5 or 450, 
The barnes 250 Tez and the Parker BE 250 are slip fit with the parker being a little tight. 
With a Duplex load of 10/56, last week the avg speeds were,
FTX 2670
TEZ 2671
 BE 2758

Dave

 

[SCHUNTER1]

The FTX is the same for my gun, they need to be resized to .450.5 or 450, 
The barnes 250 Tez and the Parker BE 250 are slip fit with the parker being a little tight. 
With a Duplex load of 10/56, last week the avg speeds were,
FTX 2670
TEZ 2671
 BE 2758

Dave

Dave it is very interesting that the BE is almost a 100 fps faster.   Must be the thin jacket and soft lead???

 

[Underclocked]

Those loads are fine for me but a bit harsh for a 90 pound 9 year old!  I'm mostly looking for bullets for him to use. I just sold my Tradition LDR so next year I will be looking to build or have another Apex converted.