777 ffg vs BH209

[MSalyards]

I don't have time to let my barrel cool when I'm hunting if I happen to need a second shot. Grafs was around $250. shipped for 5 lbs of blackhorn and that's not too bad. I shoot quite a bit and that's only for my CVA. I use pyrodex select in my Knight and Swiss or old E in my Hawken. For me it's not the price, it's what works best.

 

[michiganmuzzy]

If I would quit shooting for recreation and practice - I really would use BH! But since I can go through so much powder in a year most of my shooting is done with T7. And I can honestly say I really like shooting it. I do not fight the 'crud ring' as much as others do. Over the years I have been able to diminish the 'crud ring' a great deal.

If the price is right a T8 could be a real good thing for me.

Yes it's the rec shooting that eats it up. I figure 2 years or more before i nees more powder. Hopefully some thing better/cheaper will be available by then. If not... we will see

 

[dwm]

I don't have time to let my barrel cool when I'm hunting if I happen to need a second shot. Grafs was around $250. shipped for 5 lbs of blackhorn and that's not too bad. I shoot quite a bit and that's only for my CVA. I use pyrodex select in my Knight and Swiss or old E in my Hawken. For me it's not the price, it's what works best.

I get that , but I can get another shot off without swabbing, and I been fortunate enough to not need a second shot in quite some time, the older I get the more patience I seem to have for picking my shot , it wasn’t always like that, I would sometimes rush my shot

 

[HC]

Considering the price of the bullet (over a buck a piece) I’ll not be skimping with the powder just to save a quarter.

 

[Sideshow]

I don't have time to let my barrel cool when I'm hunting if I happen to need a second shot. Grafs was around $250. shipped for 5 lbs of blackhorn and that's not too bad. I shoot quite a bit and that's only for my CVA. I use pyrodex select in my Knight and Swiss or old E in my Hawken. For me it's not the price, it's what works best.

Yea i got a smorgasboard too lol . They truly all dont like the same stuff !!! Damn picky eaters......

 

[Sideshow]

Not by everyone or from every rifle

That has always suprised me Encore . WHY do you like those pellets ??? I bet for your ultimate firearms . You dont get much better accuracy from loose like most everybody ???

 

[GM54-120]

When i can walk right into a shop and buy OE or Swiss for about the same cost or less than Triple7.....The choice is clear. When you cant the choice is also clear so watch for sales and close outs on BH209 or deal with the crud ring.

 

[sabotloader]

Do you shoot T7 pellets or the loose ffg?

Loose T7 - never have been a fan of the pellets. when they first came out I made the mistake of actually weighing individual pellets - they are not created equal!

 

[sabotloader]

Sir what exactly do you do to diminish the crud ring, I personally don’t mind swabbing between shots, let’s my barrel cool , but that crud ring can be a real pita

At the range, I certainly do not mind running a patch between shots - it truly slows me down and allows some barrel cooling. Hunting I really do not run a patch after each shot. Normally I can load 4-5 shots before the 'crud ring' has built up enough to notice. For myself - the 'Crud Ring' has become a non factor. But in all honesty the ease of BH is really great. Just with the price was, I still can get a full pound of T7 for $20-$24 on sale and at the end of the year.

There are a couple of factors that I have found that helps limit the extent of the 'crud ring'. The things that you might use in your bore SEEM to be one of the biggest factors. I have eliminated ANYTHING with Teflon for use in the bore. Also I use only synthetic oil products - namely using only Montana Xtreme bore conditioner or Slip 2000 for lubricants. Another item that can effect the formation of the ring is the primer, if you are igniting the powder using primers. Use the lowest heat producing primer you can.

Then it really does take awhile to condition the bore. It doesn't happen over night.

 

[ENCORE50A]

That has always suprised me Encore . WHY do you like those pellets ??? I bet for your ultimate firearms . You dont get much better accuracy from loose like most everybody ???

Its not that I like pellets, or prefer pellets, but pellets do work and are used by thousands HUNTERS. Granted, most (not all) of those hunters are merely extended season hunters who never shoot long ranges or for precise accuracy. Do they work? Of course they work and they'll work for 90%+ of the members on this site for what they, in all reality, actually need.
Are pellets my own personal preference, no. But I also expect far more from myself and my equipment than 90%+ shooters.

Some may complain about pellets not being consistent. It all depends on just exactly what the users intent is and rather they themselves, or their equipment have the capabilities.
In most cases hunters are after hunting accuracy and generally at ranges of 100yds or less. Why wouldn't pellets meet that criteria?

With the exception of a couple of members here who actually presently own, or have owned an Ultimate rifle, others don't understand how well pellets work in those rifles. Now understand that neither the UF or RUM rifles were designed to be target rifles.
Both rifles are hunting rifles, nothing more, nothing less.
However both of the rifles shoot pellets EXTREMELY well, with some rifles being extremely accurate. You can clean the barrel spotless using 5 or 6 patches after 20+ rounds of T7 pellets in just a few minutes. For a hunting rifle, you can take a UF from the box, load it with the recommended PELLET charge and bullet, hunt and shoot longer range. It just doesn't get any easier for 90%+ of hunters. Its when you want more consistent precision and are willing to make a different investment that loose propellant, such as BH209 shines. Especially at long ranges.

Here's a target shot with T7 pellets......



Still think pellets are bad?


Here's my very FIRST 500yd target, witnessed and signed. I just used Strelok and adjusted by guess and by golly. SHOT WITH PELLETS.



So I hope I've been successful at pointing out why pellets are not as bad as some point out. They are fine for 90%+ hunters and for the ranges and accuracy needed for which they normally hunt. Are they the best propellant, NO. But will they work, YES.




​

 

[Steven858]

Its not that I like pellets, or prefer pellets, but pellets do work and are used by thousands HUNTERS. Granted, most (not all) of those hunters are merely extended season hunters who never shoot long ranges or for precise accuracy. Do they work? Of course they work and they'll work for 90%+ of the members on this site for what they, in all reality, actually need.
Are pellets my own personal preference, no. But I also expect far more from myself and my equipment than 90%+ shooters.

Some may complain about pellets not being consistent. It all depends on just exactly what the users intent is and rather they themselves, or their equipment have the capabilities.
In most cases hunters are after hunting accuracy and generally at ranges of 100yds or less. Why wouldn't pellets meet that criteria?

With the exception of a couple of members here who actually presently own, or have owned an Ultimate rifle, others don't understand how well pellets work in those rifles. Now understand that neither the UF or RUM rifles were designed to be target rifles.
Both rifles are hunting rifles, nothing more, nothing less.
However both of the rifles shoot pellets EXTREMELY well, with some rifles being extremely accurate. You can clean the barrel spotless using 5 or 6 patches after 20+ rounds of T7 pellets in just a few minutes. For a hunting rifle, you can take a UF from the box, load it with the recommended PELLET charge and bullet, hunt and shoot longer range. It just doesn't get any easier for 90%+ of hunters. Its when you want more consistent precision and are willing to make a different investment that loose propellant, such as BH209 shines. Especially at long ranges.

Here's a target shot with T7 pellets......

View attachment 7264

Still think pellets are bad?


Here's my very FIRST 500yd target, witnessed and signed. I just used Strelok and adjusted by guess and by golly. SHOT WITH PELLETS.

View attachment 7266

So I hope I've been successful at pointing out why pellets are not as bad as some point out. They are fine for 90%+ hunters and for the ranges and accuracy needed for which they normally hunt. Are they the best propellant, NO. But will they work, YES.




​

Thank you very much for this insight!

 

[Sideshow]

Its not that I like pellets, or prefer pellets, but pellets do work and are used by thousands HUNTERS. Granted, most (not all) of those hunters are merely extended season hunters who never shoot long ranges or for precise accuracy. Do they work? Of course they work and they'll work for 90%+ of the members on this site for what they, in all reality, actually need.
Are pellets my own personal preference, no. But I also expect far more from myself and my equipment than 90%+ shooters.

Some may complain about pellets not being consistent. It all depends on just exactly what the users intent is and rather they themselves, or their equipment have the capabilities.
In most cases hunters are after hunting accuracy and generally at ranges of 100yds or less. Why wouldn't pellets meet that criteria?

With the exception of a couple of members here who actually presently own, or have owned an Ultimate rifle, others don't understand how well pellets work in those rifles. Now understand that neither the UF or RUM rifles were designed to be target rifles.
Both rifles are hunting rifles, nothing more, nothing less.
However both of the rifles shoot pellets EXTREMELY well, with some rifles being extremely accurate. You can clean the barrel spotless using 5 or 6 patches after 20+ rounds of T7 pellets in just a few minutes. For a hunting rifle, you can take a UF from the box, load it with the recommended PELLET charge and bullet, hunt and shoot longer range. It just doesn't get any easier for 90%+ of hunters. Its when you want more consistent precision and are willing to make a different investment that loose propellant, such as BH209 shines. Especially at long ranges.

Here's a target shot with T7 pellets......

View attachment 7264

Still think pellets are bad?


Here's my very FIRST 500yd target, witnessed and signed. I just used Strelok and adjusted by guess and by golly. SHOT WITH PELLETS.

View attachment 7266

So I hope I've been successful at pointing out why pellets are not as bad as some point out. They are fine for 90%+ hunters and for the ranges and accuracy needed for which they normally hunt. Are they the best propellant, NO. But will they work, YES.




​

I hear ya Encore . I just like to "thread the needle" if i can . Loose helps me do that . My accuracy just wasnt up to par with pellets . I needed better .
I see so many at a range that are good with "being on a paper plate" . Geez i cant believe that !!!
For ME , hunting accuracy is MORE important than it is for punching paper . Who am i kidin , im anal about both !!! Its just as a hunter its my DUTY to harvest quick and clean . Thats really important for me . I have tremendous admiration for those creatures lives wild and free . I call the fields and woods "God's grocery store" . Just gotta do it right.......

 

[ENCORE50A]

I hear ya Encore . I just like to "thread the needle" if i can . Loose helps me do that . My accuracy just wasnt up to par with pellets . I needed better .
I see so many at a range that are good with "being on a paper plate" . Geez i cant believe that !!!
For ME , huntimg accuracy is MORE important than it is for punching paper . Who am i kidin , im anal about both !!! Its just as a hunter its my DUTY to harvest quick and clean . Thats really important for me . I have tremendous admiration for those creatures lives wild and free . I call the fields and woods "God's grocery store" . Just gotta do it right.......

Paper plate accuracy...………… I try to remember a couple things and yes, I sometimes forget them. I'm guilty too.
1) every region has different hunting conditions.
2) Hunters/shooters have varying degrees of accuracy ability.
It doesn't mean either is better than the other, or right or wrong.

Some hunters just don't have the time, money, or place to shoot as often as others. Their accuracy ability isn't always just associated with the propellant type they use, as there are many contributing factors to obtain extreme accuracy. Nothing guarantees that if I let one of those paper plate shooters shoot my custom, that their groups would be any smaller.

I find that if someone is shooting badly and they don't reject help, their accuracy can be improved by just watching and helping with little things THEY do, vs changing components. There has been a number of people ask for help, or other friends have asked if it would be ok to bring someone over on my range to see if they could be helped. Just watching how someone shoots allows you to notice the little things that create paper plate accuracy. For instance, the U.S.C.G. commander for Lake Huron group was brought over by a fishing friend, hoping with a little instruction he could improve his groups, which actually were paper plate size. Within an hour, with the same load and bullet he'd been shooting, he was shooting inch or so groups consistently. He'd never harvested a deer with a muzzleloader and that fall, took two nice bucks for the area.

Everyone would like to thread the needle, shoot one hole groups, and of course everyone wants a humane quick harvest. It just doesn't work out that way and certainly not every day.

Then there are those who claim they shoot dime size groups all day long.

 

[HC]

Good one.

 

[Sideshow]

Paper plate accuracy...………… I try to remember a couple things and yes, I sometimes forget them. I'm guilty too.
1) every region has different hunting conditions.
2) Hunters/shooters have varying degrees of accuracy ability.
It doesn't mean either is better than the other, or right or wrong.

Some hunters just don't have the time, money, or place to shoot as often as others. Their accuracy ability isn't always just associated with the propellant type they use, as there are many contributing factors to obtain extreme accuracy. Nothing guarantees that if I let one of those paper plate shooters shoot my custom, that their groups would be any smaller.

I find that if someone is shooting badly and they don't reject help, their accuracy can be improved by just watching and helping with little things THEY do, vs changing components. There has been a number of people ask for help, or other friends have asked if it would be ok to bring someone over on my range to see if they could be helped. Just watching how someone shoots allows you to notice the little things that create paper plate accuracy. For instance, the U.S.C.G. commander for Lake Huron group was brought over by a fishing friend, hoping with a little instruction he could improve his groups, which actually were paper plate size. Within an hour, with the same load and bullet he'd been shooting, he was shooting inch or so groups consistently. He'd never harvested a deer with a muzzleloader and that fall, took two nice bucks for the area.

Everyone would like to thread the needle, shoot one hole groups, and of course everyone wants a humane quick harvest. It just doesn't work out that way and certainly not every day.

Then there are those who claim they shoot dime size groups all day long.

View attachment 7269

Encore much of that goes without saying . Talent or ability to shoot often getting trigger time is vital to be at ones best . One can begat the other . Thats a given .
The other part of the equation is the gun and load . They all like what they like and shoot what theyll shoot best . Thats the mechanical part and theyre all different . Even at times day to day . Last is that dime ......lol . Nobody does that 1 hole level for all day . You know that level is taxing , even for a group at times .
But if your implying THAT was my dime im afraid your quite mistakin.......

And thanks Herschal , i thought it was pretty good too...

 

[ENCORE50A]

Encore much of that goes without saying . Talent or ability to shoot often getting trigger time is vital to be at ones best . One can begat the other . Thats a given .
The other part of the equation is the gun and load . They all like what they like and shoot what theyll shoot best . Thats the mechanical part and theyre all different . Even at times day to day . Last is that dime ......lol . Nobody does that 1 hole level for all day . You know that level is taxing , even for a group at times .
But if your implying THAT was my dime im afraid your quite mistakin.......

And thanks Herschal , i thought it was pretty good too...

I have no clue rather THAT is your dime or not. It was posted in general and not directed towards any single person.
It just isn't one's ability to shoot often, or always the rifle and load. One simple mistake, one change. The list is ending...…..
The reason/s you may have disqualified pellet usage, may be completely different for others.
You wanted to know why I liked pellets?

 

[Sideshow]

I have no clue rather THAT is your dime or not. It was posted in general and not directed towards any single person.
It just isn't one's ability to shoot often, or always the rifle and load. One simple mistake, one change. The list is ending...…..
The reason/s you may have disqualified pellet usage, may be completely different for others.
You wanted to know why I liked pellets?

I did . I didnt have any luck with them . I asked and you answered . Thanks . I knew that the reasons for lack of accuracy are many and varied . I took what you said about the needle aparently wrong . I didnt understand that . Such is the world of text i guess . Your and my standards for accuracy and what must be done to achieve them i believe Are higher than most . Tbat is why i was really kinda suprised how that came across to/for me . The white flag is up if that isnt wbat you meant . Looks like a lack of understang of "meaning of phrase" was at work here . Sorry if i took that all wrong , just as id believe the same sentiment from you .

 

[michiganmuzzy]

I can still remember a time when i was happy hitting a paper plate at 50yds. I had a smoothbore Mossberg 500 got in a trade and the slugs i found in a drawer in my dad's garage. Now if i can't hit that shot shell at a 100 I'm doin something wrong. My first ML wasn't a lot better at first.
That could have been my dime in that pic.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I did . I didnt have any luck with them . I asked and you answered . Thanks . I knew that the reasons for lack of accuracy are many and varied . I took what you said about the needle aparently wrong . I didnt understand that . Such is the world of text i guess . Your and my standards for accuracy and what must be done to achieve them i believe Are higher than most . Tbat is why i was really kinda suprised how that came across to/for me . The white flag is up if that isnt wbat you meant . Looks like a lack of understang of "meaning of phrase" was at work here . Sorry if i took that all wrong , just as id believe the same sentiment from you .

Its just social media at its finest. No harm, no foul and white flags are waving everywhere.

I sometimes feel that we all, at times, forget about the "little guy".
Not sure how to exactly say this without ruffling someone's feathers, but just about 10% promote 90% of the conversations. And I'm NOT pointing at anyone or saying its a bad thing. There are so many people reading these posts that are not members and we do not know their skill levels, or equipment. Example: At the moment I type this, there are 114 people viewing and only 14 are actual members.
So in a nut shell, that's why I'll say that pellets really are not as bad as many make them out to be. Yes, I got completely away from them and you are right, your and my standards for accuracy may differ greatly from others. Neither we nor they are wrong. We just strive for different expectations.

 

[Okie Hog]

Three of my inline rifles use #11 caps. IME: The Triple Seven crud ring is greatly reduced or even eliminated in rifles using #11 caps and moderate charges, 90 grains or less, of powder.