Blackhorn 209.... another post

[ENCORE50A]

EGW makes a 40moa rail that will give the elevation necessary

 

[X-ring]

Its all about having fun shooting and the first time at 1K. I do have a slight issue beyond not shooting prone. I have a 20moa mount and 100moa of total adjustment in the scope. At 2150fps rather its a 300gr or 325gr bullet, I'm at minimum 6moa short on adjustment. Need 71moa according to JBM.

You start your first relay at 800 yds. The most important thing is getting a shot on paper. If the person in the pits pulling your target isn't paying attention and your first shot is a miss, and they can't give you any feedback over the radio where the miss was, you will have no idea if you missed high, low, right, or left and how to correct your sights. Instant frustration. Getting squadded with 2 guys with experience is really important. Usually, [but not always,] new guys are squadded with experienced shooters. In our L.R. matches at Grayling the pit person could relay to the firing line that your shot was high, right, left, or low, but could not relay to you how much to correct your sights. The sight correction is solely up to the shooter.
If you have an issue with not shooting prone, it will be entirely up to the match director if you will be allowed to shoot in an alternate position. A match must proceed without undue delay between distances if you want to finish the match at a reasonable time. That is no doubt why they don't want any shooting benches to be assembled/disassembled every time you change distance. I would advise that you talk with Steve, Pete, or Hoppy about your concerns. I have shot with all 3 of them and they are good guys. X

 

[ENCORE50A]

You start your first relay at 800 yds. The most important thing is getting a shot on paper. If the person in the pits pulling your target isn't paying attention and your first shot is a miss, and they can't give you any feedback over the radio where the miss was, you will have no idea if you missed high, low, right, or left and how to correct your sights. Instant frustration. Getting squadded with 2 guys with experience is really important. Usually, [but not always,] new guys are squadded with experienced shooters. In our L.R. matches at Grayling the pit person could relay to the firing line that your shot was high, right, left, or low, but could not relay to you how much to correct your sights. The sight correction is solely up to the shooter.
If you have an issue with not shooting prone, it will be entirely up to the match director if you will be allowed to shoot in an alternate position. A match must proceed without undue delay between distances if you want to finish the match at a reasonable time. That is no doubt why they don't want any shooting benches to be assembled/disassembled every time you change distance. I would advise that you talk with Steve, Pete, or Hoppy about your concerns. I have shot with all 3 of them and they are good guys. X

45-70 sent me some photos of shooting prone that will really help (thanks Bob) plus, I have those that I took that time at Lake City when you and Bob were shooting. Those photos all help alot. I'm actually looking forward to attempting prone. Jeff and I discussed it last year and he gave me a few tips.
I'm used to shooting 600yds with .3moa groups. 800yds is going to require more adjustment for spin drift plus any wind but getting on target shouldn't be a major issue. Its the extra 200yds that's going to take some cyphering LOL
I already have a mat and my X-sticks made up. I could use the hash marks in my scope to make up the 6moa+ difference but I'll most likely just order the 40moa rail and do it right.

Actually I'm excited about the possibility of attending this match. I'd be going just to have fun, learn and try to do my best. The wife is getting better slowly, walking only with a cane now. Wife takes 1st place always. Remember when I came down to Lake City and had the knee all bandaged up? Well I'm "sparking" as the doc calls it now. The knee requires a replacement and that's like what may interfere with my shooting the match. I think it'll work out that the replacement will be after the match. I go back every 3 months for shots and the next will be the end of May.
Looking forward to shooting. I haven't loaded the rifle since last summer.

 

[WV Hunter]

I was looking at my supplies this evening. In the past couple years I've been able to squirrel away some jugs of BH, through various avenues. I have one older jug that I found in my gun room lot 26. I have 2 lot 35, 1, lot 31, 1 lot 32, 1 lot 38. So 5 different lots.

Would it make any sense at all to mix them all together and divide back up? (to try and get a more even overall vol/wgt ratio for the 6 cans combined). Typing this it doesn't sound like a good idea, LOL

It is crazy thought that they can't be more consistent. Seems like it has consistently gotten farther away from the original .7 that it was listed as. (Encore, your measurements is .8 which is 15% more)

Just a thought. I'm not shooting competitively, just range and hunting. So likely I'll just shoot one jug at a time and sight in again with each new jug. I do wonder how much difference in accuracy that 15% more weight could potentially make - maybe not much at under 200yds.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I don't believe I would mix the various lots together. Sounds good but on the other hand it may cause consistency issues.

With my custom I don't believe there would be any measurable difference in accuracy. I say that because of the quality of the rifle Jeff built. I think you could grab a handful of propellant, pour it out of your hand into the barrel and it would shoot accurate. Shooter has to do his part.

 

[45-70]

works with black but don't know about blackhorn, i would just weigh out charges instead of by volume see how much changes or if velocity stays consistant

 

[X-ring]

45-70 sent me some photos of shooting prone that will really help (thanks Bob) plus, I have those that I took that time at Lake City when you and Bob were shooting. Those photos all help alot. I'm actually looking forward to attempting prone. Jeff and I discussed it last year and he gave me a few tips.
I'm used to shooting 600yds with .3moa groups. 800yds is going to require more adjustment for spin drift plus any wind but getting on target shouldn't be a major issue. Its the extra 200yds that's going to take some cyphering LOL
I already have a mat and my X-sticks made up. I could use the hash marks in my scope to make up the 6moa+ difference but I'll most likely just order the 40moa rail and do it right.

Actually I'm excited about the possibility of attending this match. I'd be going just to have fun, learn and try to do my best. The wife is getting better slowly, walking only with a cane now. Wife takes 1st place always. Remember when I came down to Lake City and had the knee all bandaged up? Well I'm "sparking" as the doc calls it now. The knee requires a replacement and that's like what may interfere with my shooting the match. I think it'll work out that the replacement will be after the match. I go back every 3 months for shots and the next will be the end of May.
Looking forward to shooting. I haven't loaded the rifle since last summer.

I think if the weather is decent, you'll have a great time. I'm sure you have your loading proceedure pretty well figured out but keep the stuff you haul around at a minimum. Easily set up and taken down in a timely manner. I've said this before but it bears repeating........Practice from the X sticks. There are a lot of little things have to flow together to be really comfortable when shooting prone from the sticks. Most you probably already know, the rest you'll figure out through trial and error. Natural point of aim is important because you will have to find it from10-15 times because you have to leave the firing line to reload and then flop back down behind the sticks for each shot. Where you rest the forearm or barrel on the sticks will have to be determined through trial and error. [And repeatable.] The height of the sticks is really important. Too high or too low will be uncomfortable because you have to get out of your N.P.O.A. to get on target. If that happens, recoil can get noticeable pretty quick and your scores may start to suffer. Speaking of recoil when shooting prone......your body will soak up recoil like a sponge since it can't move to the rear like it does when shooting from any other position. You may want to consider a PAST recoil pad. At any rate, I'm sure you will pick up this stuff pretty quickly when you get behind your sticks. Remember..............practice, practice, practice. X

 

[ENCORE50A]

I've used a PAST recoil pad since the first time shooting that BP Express. 120/84 feels like a BB gun compared to that charge of 180grs T7.
I'm assuming....... that I'll likely not be the only one shooting off X-sticks that hasn't done it before. Modern inline shooters are more likely to use a bipod than sticks but, I'm also assuming that those who already know will help. The couple times I've been to Friendship, everyone there is willing to help anyone and everyone.

I made up some adjustable sticks.........

 

[rangerod]

Basically because in the past the weight changes from lot-to-lot. And I would disagree with a lot of error by volume. But it is not like a little error when loading true Smokeless powders.

I respectfully disagree. I don't believe it's the weight that changes. I believe it's the volume that changes because of variations in particle size.

 

[MrTom]

I've always considered the grains of 209 to be fairly consistent. My feeling is that the density of the granules changes lot to lot and that accounts for the deviation in wt/vol between lot numbers.

 

[Pathfinder60]

To me it doesn't seem like the density of Blackhorn has changed much from what it used to be when Western Powders had it. Back then it was noticed by many that density of Blackhorn changed from lot to lot. Myself tried as much as possible to purchase 5 pound jugs of Blackhorn so that it was not necessary to constantly adjust the powder drop to accommodate the constant Blackhorn density changes.

One may find it interesting that lot 41 currently from Hodgdon has the same density as lot 33 from Western Powders had.

With the picture posted earlier of all those 10oz bottles in a row beside the 2 5lb jugs in mind, what would be the harm in combining all those 10oz bottles, mixing them really well and creating just one lot so that from then on the drop stays the same?

 

[Caniborrowsomeammo]

what would be the harm in combining all those 10oz bottles, mixing them really well and creating just one lot so that from then on the drop stays the same?

That is my question also. To me, it makes sense to average it all out.

 

[WV Hunter]

With the picture posted earlier of all those 10oz bottles in a row beside the 2 5lb jugs in mind, what would be the harm in combining all those 10oz bottles, mixing them really well and creating just one lot so that from then on the drop stays the same?

That was my thought... wasn't sure if I was way off for asking, or if anyone had done it. I have 6 full 10oz jugs, 2 being the same lot.

 

[ENCORE50A]

That was my thought... wasn't sure if I was way off for asking, or if anyone had done it. I have 6 full 10oz jugs, 2 being the same lot.

It might be like loose T7, where that that is on the bottom are smaller pieces than those towards the top of the bottle??
For the average hunter/plinker shooting 150yds or less, it most likely will not matter.

 

[Caniborrowsomeammo]

Encore, that's a nice-looking thought-out set of sticks.

 

[ENCORE50A]

Encore, that's a nice-looking thought-out set of sticks.

Thank you

 

[txhunter58]

What I don’t understand is that BH is an extruded powder. Each grain is a single round particle with a hole thru the middle. Seems like a pretty exact way to manufacture a powder. In the original powder made by Western, I didn’t see hardly any difference in the weight to volume comparison between bottles/ lots. What changed?

 

[bandicoot]

A pound of feathers weigh the same as a pound of boat anchors.

 

[GM54-120]

Remember this was covered awhile back after the Triple 8 powder name was mentioned. TB did a write up and it appears to fall inline with some observations about Hodgdon branded Blackhorn 209. The "finer" grains could weight more by volume?
http://namlhunt.com/all-things-ml/what-powder-is-in-the-federal-firestickWestern branded BH209 left side..........................................................................................................Fiddlestick Triple8 right side

What I found inside did not surprise me at all. It's basically Blackhorn 209. I say "basically" only because the granules do appear to be slightly smaller in size - which would account for the claim that the powder is "slightly hotter, slightly faster" than the powder it appears to be.

My feeling is ... what Federal is loading into the FireStick as "Hodgdon Triple Eight" is nothing more than the undersized granules, known as "fines", separated from the desired sized granules of Blackhorn 209 - to keep that powder as consistent as it has been. That photo directly above shows on the left the granules taken from a freshly opened canister of Blackhorn 209 ... and on the right granules taken from the opened FireStick.

 

[45-70]

Remember this was covered awhile back after the Triple 8 powder name was mentioned. TB did a write up and it appears to fall inline with some observations about Hodgdon branded Blackhorn 209. The "finer" grains could weight more by volume?
http://namlhunt.com/all-things-ml/what-powder-is-in-the-federal-firestickWestern branded BH209 left side..........................................................................................................Fiddlestick Triple8 right side

They both have holes