Blackhorn 209.....WTH

[Pathfinder60]

I think he is refering to Knight plunger rifles and BH209. Even Western only recommends a closed/sealed breech system. As fas as the rest of the Knights its pretty simple to achieve a clean, totally safe and ultra dependable BH209 shooter. Out of 6 of mine only 1 needed some tinkering. All the rest sealed up fine with a Win209 and a Lehigh plug.

Oh...well I guess I'm mistaken then. I thought BH was off the table. Nice that you guys that own them have that powder option available to you if you would so choose. I personally love the stuff in my Paramount and Prairie Rifle.

 

[GM54-120]

Ive shot almost nothing but BH209 in my Knights for ohhhhhh since 2010ish. Not one missfire other than a dirty FPJ plug and that was clearly my fault. Not one poof or hang fire with a $16.50 Lehigh plug. Probably 95% or more of those shots was with a standard Win209. No mag primer was ever needed.

I see guys post weekly about how their CVAs even with a BH209 plug failed to fire. Im fairly confident many were user error but.............

 

[tpcollins]

I have (3) breech plugs for my TC Triumph.

I’ve sent all (3) to Blackhorn who drilled them out to slightly larger flash hole.

My memory is rather poor but I think my factory plugs were something like .026” and they were drilled out to .032” or something like that.

I’d give them a call and see if they still provide that service.

 

[MrTom]

Even re-drilled factory plugs are going to be subject to flash hole erosion simply because the metal is softer than a vent liner. If memory serves me right, I think the CVA plugs are @.028" I've converted every CVA plug I have to vent liner use and the liners I think are at .032. Badger Ridge was the source used for the liners and I believe are liners used in Savage plugs. I just replaced those liners that have been in my Accura V2 and Optima V2 pistol, with each gun having been shot a whole lot of times: several boxes of 50 or 100 count bullets thru each one. All using 209 powder and maybe a bit of T7 granular more recently when 209 was hard to round up. All with W209 primers. Factory plugs will burn out and when they do the accuracy will go out the door with them.

A few years ago I bought a used Kodiak .45 cal. The gun had been fed T7 pellets since forever. I accuracy with granular T7 wasn't too bad. I wanted to do Bh209 so I ordered a couple of replacement plugs to drill and tap for liners and just for the heck of it I pin gauged the original plug and found it to be at .036. The new liner was installed in a new plug and using 209 powder at 100 yards with the W209 primers and 200 grain .40 cal XTP's the first 5 shots all went roughly into the same hole instead of the 2 1/2" with the old plug. Vent liners are simply a Godsend.

 

[GM54-120]

Drilling out a flash HOLE just makes the plug closer to wearing out. Yes it may work but the question is for HOW LONG? The Triumph plug is really long. The concave face is tiny. The powder sets a long way from the primer.

The right way is to counter sink for a vent liner or better yet a carbide bushing with lock collar. Do whatever is needed to get the primer to seal up in the primer pocket. The oring mod is the easiest way to achieve this. If you go the carbide bushing route the flash hole will last a extremely long time and you might be able to get it set in a bit deeper in the Triumph plug.

Guys shooting the Savage MLIIs learned this ages ago. 5/32 flash channel and a carbide bushing cant be beat for a 209 plug. Loads that ate up vents in 20 shots lasted for hundreds with a carbide bushing. In a smoker you are talking about over a 1000 shots on a bushing.

 

[45-70]

Hasn't been any BH over here in my neck of the woods in Ontario Canada for 2yrs now, and it sells for $80.00/bottle

strange because it was made there supposedly

 

[bdog]

strange because it was made there supposedly

I don't believe it's made here now, either way, there's none anywhere to be found in canada

 

[shiner200gr]

2 out of 3 isn't bad as they say. Triple 7 loose is cheaper and easier to light buts definitely not cleaner which is why BH209 has gotten so popular. There's a reason that BH209 is used by literally all the rifles designed for so called "super magnum" charges...because when used properly, no other black powder substitute can generate as much force as BH209 can. No elephant in the room actually...your assertions are fallacious.

I finally got to the range for my first BH209 trial with the correct breech plug. Excuse me, but I must have gotten the worst batch ever produced! My Triple 7 pellets clean up with 2 pre wetted patches using both sides......the BH took 5 patches both sides and I could STILL get some color on a wet patch if I tried. So I'm calling BS on the "cleaner" claims. To me, it's good old black powder with a different label. AND STINKS JUST LIKE IT. No more cleaning in the house.

 

[Caniborrowsomeammo]

Ahem..... about cleaning BH 209................
https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/blackhorn-209-cleaning.24137/

 

[shiner200gr]

Ahem..... about cleaning BH 209...........

All suggestions for cleaning BH209 thick soot seem to contain some form of OIL ....fine in your unmentionable, but surefire misfire in a frontstuffer to my reconning.

 

[bstorric]

All suggestions for cleaning BH209 thick soot seem to contain some form of OIL ....fine in your unmentionable, but surefire misfire in a frontstuffer to my reconning.

Blackhorn is not water soluble, so thats why it is recommended to clean using oil based solvents. That also might be why you had a hard time getting your bore clean in a couple patches. You can use a fairly viscous cleaner and it should minimize the risk of misfire... or you can just stick to what you have had success with in the past

 

[jsteurrys]

Dry patch most of the residue out first then use solvent-soaked patches. Cleanup is much quicker.

 

[GM54-120]

Dry patch most of the residue out first then use solvent-soaked patches. Cleanup is much quicker.

That is what i do, shove a patch all the way thru first to remove the bulk of the fouling. Then crack out the solvent patches. I still say it cleans up quicker because im NEVER cleaning at the range. I never need to use patches at the range and water is never introduced by me to my bore.

So when you are a patch counter, make sure to count the patches you needed before your end of day cleaning too.

 

[shiner200gr]

I never need to use patches at the range and water is never introduced by me to my bore.

That my friend is bassackwards from everything I know about muzzle guns, but to each his own. I will never put oil based products in the bore, so it looks like BH209 is for a different generation of shooters. that is all ok. I'm unBlackhorning my CVA asap, but that also means I can go back to cleaning in the kitchen.
Happy holidays!

 

[GM54-120]

Well its right on the Western website. Its been discussed at length here. Do you use water to clean up your center fires? Its a nitro based powder. Nitrate ester to be exact. So basically a semi smokeless powder because of other things they add to it.

I can tell you with 100% certainty i have never used water in my smokeless center fires. I cant imagine why i would prefer to use it in my ML too. I got a gallon of milspec CLP for under $25 so yeah it cost more than water does but that gallon might outlast me. One thing is for certain, my CLP will NEVER cause it to rust.

 

[JIMYJAC]

Dry patch most of the residue out first then use solvent-soaked patches. Cleanup is much quicker.

This is the ticket! Since I have used this procedure cleaning is a breeze.

 

[eekjellander]

That my friend is bassackwards from everything I know about muzzle guns, but to each his own. I will never put oil based products in the bore, so it looks like BH209 is for a different generation of shooters. that is all ok. I'm unBlackhorning my CVA asap, but that also means I can go back to cleaning in the kitchen.
Happy holidays!

And instead of shooting all day at range with all your patches sitting home at the kitchen where they are next to the water by using BH209 ,you'll save by using water and a water based patch wipe between shots every time you yank the trigger and have a bag of dirty patches to take home and (THEN) start your usual cleaning procedure (years of experience) and inspect bore/rifle for the next week for rust from using water based lubricants . Yup Thats what I do using OE BP ,but never would I say no to BH209 it"s just not available in the amount I require ! Not to mention most of what I shoot is under 1500FPS where as BH209 is capable of 2000 +PLUS .Ed

 

[GM54-120]

Modern synthetic oils are just fine with any sub or real black for storage use. Even mineral oil based products like Ballistol are fine. That is why Ballistol was made over 100 years ago. To deal with both kinds of powder. I dont leave any lube in my bore anyway when im ready to shoot so its a rather mute point. Swab out the oil with the appropriate solvent and pop a primer. Wipe it out real fast with a dry patch once and im all set. My bore is lightly fouled and free of any amount of lube that would be of any concern.

Im talking inlines here that can be easily cleaned from end to end. It may not be as simple with a sidelock to get any oils out.

 

[sabotloader]

Just sharing... I shoot BH and T7 and I clean the bore and the breech the same way and yes - I do use a tad bit of water it is in the Blue Widex with Ammonia that I really prefer.

True BH is basically a smokeless powder BUT... it does contain a small amount of Sulphur and Potassium so that it can qualify as a BP sub. With those two ingredients the Blue Windex with the small amount of Ammonia works perfectly to strip away the Sulphur/Potassium residue in the barrel.

With that this is my simple method of cleaning the bore - Quick and easy.... And it works great! has for many many years.

 

[Caniborrowsomeammo]

Ok, so back to your original post Shiner, I would like to buy your 10 oz minus 120 grains of BH 209 as now my source to acquire has dried up. Alas there is no way to ship it