Blackhorn 209.....WTH

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Back when I shot my flintlock longrifles at least once a month, if not more often, I usually averaged approximately 5-6 pounds of fffg black powder per year. I never shot in any type of formal matches, or competitions, just for fun/my own entertainment. I had access to a piece of rural property that allowed me to range about in the forest, and scattered clearings, doing what I now call stump shooting. I shot at random targets, big stones laying on the ground, rotting downed trees, an interesting knot on a stump, clumps of brush, etc. I was training myself to learn to estimate distances, as well as to snap shoot. I shot from sitting, kneeling, and offhand positions, as well as using anything in the forest that presented itself as a impromptu rest.

My local gun shop, where I purchased the black powder, always questioned me as to why I bought as much powder as I did. In the 1970's here in Baltimore City, I was an abnormal customer, as far as black powder was concerned. I was told on more than one occasion that the average muzzleloading shooter/hunter back in those days purchased a 1 pound can of black powder about every 3-5 years.
 
The woods are full of seasonal ML hunters that almost never shoot for recreation. They go get the yearly pie plate group and off they go hunting. You see them every year at places like Cabelas picking up a pack of PowerBelts and a box of pellets. The vast majority of those guys probably only use a ML because its just another chance at filling a tag.....They got no idea how accurate a good ML can be and dont even care.

I see them at the range too before the season. They see mine punch CF type or better groups and cant believe it. They dont even know a Knight rifle or custom inlines exist. Everyone of them is shooting a mass produced break action and whatever the sales guy/gal told them to shoot. Its just sad.
 
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Thats interesting cuz im seeing ammo and supplies starting to show up on shelves again. Powders, while not overstocked like 2-3 years ago, are in stock 1 or 2 bottles, primers are still short in the really popular small pistol primers but i can buy all the rifle primers i could want. Bullets can still be hit or miss but in .45 they never were that well stocked on shelves here anyway. Zero 450 Bushmaster which i WOULD hoard if i could find it at a reasonable price.
 
I"m glad I dont have friends like yours ,mine know I"m looking for BH209 and will buy it for me knowing at this point it aint cost just buy it and tell me how much I owe you! And know I dont hoard which is why I did not have any to shoot when I used up the last 10 oz from last year ,just got 2 bottles from my local dealer (40 + yrs ) relationship . She called and said a buyer who asked for and never picked up 2 bottles reminded her that I was looking for 4-5 bottles so she called and said I got 2 ,when will you pickup and told her Pauline Im on my way ! Got there and she informed me with the lack of every thing she is closing up shop only thing left is shot gun wads ! Thanks BIDEN)/Ed


Without getting too deep into politics, I believe the Covid-19 mess has allowed that element of our society here in the United States that wants a completely disarmed general public/citizenry, to slowly choke off the supply of components that allow the dedicated shooter/hunter to economically afford to shoot both centerfire weapons (rifles, handguns, and shotguns), and muzzleloading weapons.

Affordable .22 rimfire ammunition, which in my youth used to allow children to shoot/hunt for the most reasonable of costs, purchasing a single 50-round box at a time for mere pennies; is now a long distant memory. A brick of 500-rounds, which used to be priced so reasonably that a father could take his kids out shooting for an entire weekend day, is now priced up in the stratosphere. With prices for bulk .22 ammo (325 round to 600 round bricks) ranging from a low of $50.00, to over a $100.00.

My personal opinion is that certain corporations have used Covid-19 as a means of strangling out the competition, as well as being able to raise prices to make a greater profit margin than ever before. While at the same time keeping inventory scarce to make buyers willing to pay prices for guns, ammunition, and reloading components that a year & a half ago would have been unthinkable.

If the ammunition companies have had, and continue to have, the manufacturing capacity to produce billions upon billions upon billions of rounds of 9mm, 5.56x45mm NATO, 7.62X51mm NATO, and .50 BMG ammo, just to name the most common calibers, to militarize branches of the Federal government that previously had never been armed in any fashion (FEMA, IRS, Dept of Agriculture, etc.), then those ammunition companies surely have had the manufacturing capacity to provide an adequate supply of ammunition, in all calibers, for sale to the American shooting public.

The last statistics that I saw stated unequivocally that all of the combined branches/departments of the Federal government that are not one of the 5 branches of our armed military forces; now have in excess of 25 billion rounds of military grade small arms ammunition stored in supposedly hidden depots scattered around the United States to be used in the case of an armed uprising of the common citizenry. Along with the ammo are stored battle rifles, handguns, submachine guns, machine guns, grenades, rocket launchers, mini-guns, Humvees, field gear, uniforms, body armor, boots, night vision equipment, sniper rifles, etc.

In other words, multiple, civilian branches of our government have armed themselves with the exact same clothing, equipment, and weapons that the fully trained members of the military are armed with.

This, in my opinion, is why everything firearms related, to include muzzleloaders, has gone up in price exponentially over the past decade. And the rising prices, and shortages, don't appear to have any end in sight.
 
Not where I come from. Around here they got about 4 bottles and sold those in a day and never got any more. Same price this year as last...$36.86.

The managers at Mao Mart have wised up. Lawton Mao Mart received four or five bottles of BH 209 along with some pellets, and a few bottles of Pyrodex and Triple Seven. Bullets, powder, 209 primers and #11 caps were gone before deer muzzleloader season and they never re-stocked. Only thing left is some Traditions accessories.

There's no doubt, BH 209 is really good powder, i just don't need the stuff. My re-loading hole is stocked with enough Triple Seven, Pyrodex and Black MZ to last the lifetime of a muzzleloader addict. Last bottle of Pyrodex i opened had a price tag marked down to $4.99.
 
I learned the hard way to keep a stock of shooting supplies. We have Cabela's and Sportsman's Warehouses here in Albuquerque, and between them they have less than 20' of shelf space for muzzleloader and supplies. Many times they are out of powder and bullets before the season starts. In NM, the muzzleloader season is almost as big as the rifle season. It makes no sense. I don't worry about warehoused powder. I've shot ammo that was 40 years old without issue. Anyone near me that needs primers, send me a PM. My buddy picked up a brick of Cheddite primers recently. So far working fine in his Accura.
 
<snipped> Lawton Mao Mart received four or five bottles of BH 209 along with some pellets, and a few bottles of Pyrodex and Triple Seven. Bullets, powder, 209 primers and #11 caps were gone before deer muzzleloader season and they never re-stocked. Only thing left is some Traditions accessories.

<snipped>

The only primers I have seen at my local Walmarts, right next to the BH209 are inline muzzle loader primers that are not compatible with BH209... and pretty much all of it besides some pellets did sell out before gun deer season started (much less muzzle loader season which is a late season here in Michigan).
 
The managers at Mao Mart have wised up. Lawton Mao Mart received four or five bottles of BH 209 along with some pellets, and a few bottles of Pyrodex and Triple Seven. Bullets, powder, 209 primers and #11 caps were gone before deer muzzleloader season and they never re-stocked. Only thing left is some Traditions accessories.

There's no doubt, BH 209 is really good powder, i just don't need the stuff. My re-loading hole is stocked with enough Triple Seven, Pyrodex and Black MZ to last the lifetime of a muzzleloader addict. Last bottle of Pyrodex i opened had a price tag marked down to $4.99.
Guess Im one of those addicts , easy pound of OE 2F a week during spring till Sept (hunting season starts) shooting long/Ed
 
Herb, over at The Longrifles Forum, proved conclusively several years ago, that all that is required to ignite any of the black powder substitutes, to include BH209, in a flintlock, sidelock, muzzleloading rifle, was a 10 grain squibb charge of real black powder under the main charge of the substitute powder.

A pound of fffg black powder weighs 7000 grains. No more than 3 grains of powder is required to prime the pan of a flintlock.

3 gr (prime) + 10 gr (squibb) = 13 grains

7000 ÷ 13 = 538.46 shots per pound to utilize any black powder substitute in a flintlock rifle.

An even greater number of shots per pound can be realized with a sidelock percussion rifle, as there is no pan to prime.

7000 gr ÷ 10 grain squibb = 700 shots per pound of black powder when igniting any of the substitutes that are reluctant to ignite with percussion caps.
 
Thats interesting cuz im seeing ammo and supplies starting to show up on shelves again. Powders, while not overstocked like 2-3 years ago, are in stock 1 or 2 bottles, primers are still short in the really popular small pistol primers but i can buy all the rifle primers i could want. Bullets can still be hit or miss but in .45 they never were that well stocked on shelves here anyway. Zero 450 Bushmaster which i WOULD hoard if i could find it at a reasonable price.
Primer situation is the opposite down here. They have all the pistol primers on the shelf and non of the rifle. I’ve been looking for rifle and can’t find any anywhere
 
Another option, is to get a breech plug that converts to using large rifle primers. Anyone interested can google that. I have no eperience as my CVA BH209 specific breech plugs and Federal 209A have been working fine. The logical next step up, seems to me anyway, would be to upgrade to the large primer system. It seems like that would work as well as my 50/70 ctg reloads using same 209 powder and cci mag rifle primers. Then theory and practice often differ.
 
Another option, is to get a breech plug that converts to using large rifle primers. Anyone interested can google that. I have no eperience as my CVA BH209 specific breech plugs and Federal 209A have been working fine. The logical next step up, seems to me anyway, would be to upgrade to the large primer system. It seems like that would work as well as my 50/70 ctg reloads using same 209 powder and cci mag rifle primers. Then theory and practice often differ.
I upgraded both my CVA Paramount and Prairie Rifle to the Arrowhead LMRP units and I couldn't be happier. Yes, they are a bit pricey. But for me, the money spent displaces all the aggrevation so many are going through right now in regards to 209 primers. I bought a 1000 large rifle primers and now have all I'll ever need and both rifles perform their absolute best using this ignition system. I still have both original breech plugs as well as the CVA BH and the Lehigh unit with vent liners and o-rings but I'll most likely never use them because they are inferior to the LRMP system.
 
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MtMonkey kindly offered me, and subsequently gave me, one of his spare, used, Arrowhead LMRP breech plugs for my Optima V2 pistol, along with about a dozen of the standard hardness brass modules. He told me that using the combination of the LMRP breech plug, and large rifle brass modules, should completely eliminate all gas leakage, or blowback.

I really didn't have to think very hard to make the decision to accept his offer. What easier way to prime an inline pistol/rifle to shoot, than a LMRP style ignition system. Large rifle primers/large magnum rifle primers are sufficiently hot to ignite anything from regular black powder, on up to the hard to ignite pellets, and further on up to BH209.

The only two drawbacks to a LMRP breech plug & module ignition system, are the cost of the modules per 20/each; and the fact that if one is going to shoot heavy/hot loads with near maximum breech pressures, then the brass in the modules is going flow/stretch, causing the primer pocket in the module to become enlarged, thus rendering the modules unusable.

Standard modules cost $110.00 per/20 each, and the hardened brass modules cost $140.00 per/20 each.

I am primarily going to be shooting real black powder out of the Optima V2 pistol, and will not be generating breech pressures that are anywhere close to maximum, so I am hopeful that I can use a single module for a far greater number of shots than if I was using BH 209 as a propellant.
 
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"The question that I have for those diehard BH209 shooters that have been able to purchase in past years, the heavily discounted 10oz bottles of BH209 at Walmart after the end of each hunting season is, "Do you think that Walmart will continue with past policies, and continue this practice?"

"Or, has there been a complete paradigm shift vis-a-vis the selling of firearms propellants to the general public here in the United States? To the point that the previous low/reasonable prices for smokeless powders, black powder, and black powder substitutes might be a thing of the past?"

Interested in other's thoughts.
Good question
 
MtMonkey kindly offered me, and subsequently gave me, one of his spare, used, Arrowhead LMRP breech plugs for my Optima V2 pistol, along with about a dozen of the standard hardness brass modules. He told me that using the combination of the LMRP breech plug, and large rifle brass modules, should completely eliminate all gas leakage, or blowback.

I really didn't have to think very hard to make the decision to accept his offer. What easier way to prime an inline pistol/rifle to shoot, than a LMRP style ignition system. Large rifle primers/large magnum rifle primers are sufficiently hot to ignite anything from regular black powder, on up to the hard to ignite pellets, and further on up to BH209.

The only two drawbacks to a LMRP breech plug & module ignition system, are the cost of the modules per 20/each; and the fact that if one is going to shoot heavy/hot loads with near maximum breech pressures, then the brass in the modules is going flow/stretch, causing the primer pocket in the module to become enlarged, thus rendering the modules unusable.

Standard modules cost $110.00 per/20 each, and the hardened brass modules cost $140.00 per/20 each.

I am primarily going to be shooting real black powder out of the Optima V2 pistol, and will not be generating breech pressures that are anywhere close to maximum, so I am hopeful that I can use a single module for a far greater number of shots than if I was using BH 209 as a propellant.
Modules aren't $20 each. $5.50 for the brass and hardened $7.00
I have 60 brass modules that have NEVER been cleaned and I've sent WELL over 20#'s of HEAVY charges of BH209 with. I have no issues with the primer pockets becoming enlarged.
 
I read a lot about Blackhorn 209 before I decided to buy it. I have always used Triple 7, but I had a need to bring the muzzle velocity up a bit to the prescribed muzzle velocity for a Burris 3-9's range reticle. They want 2,100 fps with a 250 grain for a match (100-300).
My CVA Accura is set up for 209 primers and I have been using CCI's without any problem. I was at 1975 fps with three 50 grain Triple 7 pellets. I figured 120 grains of Blackhorn should do the job from what I had read,
When I pulled the trigger, the primer went off.....then, a half second later, the powder went off.
Squeaky clean breech plug, all as it should be. This rifle has never had a hang fire in all the time I've owned it. Unless someone can give me a good reason for this, I'll have a full pound of Blackhorn for sale (minus 120 grains).
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seen it was already posted…
 
Modules aren't $20 each. $5.50 for the brass and hardened $7.00
I have 60 brass modules that have NEVER been cleaned and I've sent WELL over 20#'s of HEAVY charges of BH209 with. I have no issues with the primer pockets becoming enlarged.
I did not state that the modules were $20 each. My third to the last paragraph stated.....

The only two drawbacks to a LMRP breech plug & module ignition system, are the cost of the modules per/20 each; and.......

The next paragraph stated the prices per 20 modules as taken directly off of the Arrowhead Rifles website.

In addition, as far as the primer pockets stretching/enlarging is concerned, I was only paraphrasing information taken from a thread here some months back where the OP, and at least one other member, clearly stated that the primer pockets in their modules had stretched to the point of rendering the modules unsafe to use.
 
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I did not state that the modules were $20 each. My third to the last paragraph stated.....

The only two drawbacks to a LMRP breech plug & module ignition system, are the cost of the modules per/20 each; and.......

The next paragraph stated the prices per 20 modules as taken directly off of the Arrowhead Rifles website.

In addition, as far as the primer pockets stretching/enlarging is concerned, I was only paraphrasing information taken from a thread here some months back where the OP, and at least one other member, clearly stated that the primer pockets in their modules had stretched to the point of rendering the modules unsafe to use.
Got it.

If you can find the post again of the other members discussing modules, please share it. As I previously mentioned, with 60 brass modules I've fired well over 20#'s of BH209 through my custom rifle with charges of 112grs BY WEIGHT and my modules have no issues. I've cleaned the primer pockets once is all.
Now if the others were shooting SML using brass modules, then I fully understand them having issues. I also know that the modules, even mine, will not last forever and will require replacement.
 

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