CVA Paramount Update

Modern Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Modern Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
He is my WAG, you did the "Shaver burnishing" to a nitride barrel that are known to run slightly large for a 45cal. The actual body of the ELR is .449 so your bullet has to bump up at least .003 to engage the rifling. My bullets slightly engrave in my .450s because both my barrels run just under .451. A .451 bullet loads snug but not too hard in my .4507-8 land barrel. They bump up fast if using thin jacket bullets like the Fury.

I would try one of the Fury bullets and get a adjustable sizing die. Size your bullets to load with around 20lbs on a clean or swabbed bore. Go from there as far as sizing. If im not mistaken Fury can knurl his .452s for a small additional fee and those might load just about right with a little fouling.

You could also try one of his .401s or .402s in a Harvester smooth blue sabot. The 240s i got look really nice and he claims the BC is over .300. At 2500fps he says he got .36 BC.
 
Last edited:
I’ve been reading your posts regarding the Fury bullets. Are they .40 caliber and you’re using sabots ?
I shoot .453 sized Fury 275gr ST2P bullets in my Paramount. But in my Accura V2 .45 is the same barrel twist & dia. & that thing shoots sabots really well. The light blue crush rib sabots are the ticket in mine. The MMP sabots were a problem. No reason that Paramount can't shoot incredibly well, with some very impressive MV's as well behind 105gr BH 209 charges. I push 220gr .40 Dead Center bullets in LBCR's behind 84gr BH 209 at over 2400fps very accurately out to the 200yds I've shot them. In the Paramount I'd like to see some data on .40/45 sabots with 105gr BH 209 charges gets & the accuracy get posted by someone.
 
I shot my buck at 280 yds this year with a 280 ELR. bullet performed great. Complete pass through. The buck didnt take a step.
2120 MV out of an accura LR. They shoot very well from my 45 cal knight mountaineer as well.
Congrats on your 280yd kill with your Accura & the ELR's. WOW 2120fps mv I'm sure it did a heck of lot less damage at that MV & range than the MV's & ranges from 130yds in that I've shot deer with them. I'm thrilled to see this Paramount page still continuing on. But I too absolutely love the heck out of my Accura V2. Its all I hunted with last yr.
 
I shoot .453 sized Fury 275gr ST2P bullets in my Paramount. But in my Accura V2 .45 is the same barrel twist & dia. & that thing shoots sabots really well. The light blue crush rib sabots are the ticket in mine. The MMP sabots were a problem. No reason that Paramount can't shoot incredibly well, with some very impressive MV's as well behind 105gr BH 209 charges. I push 220gr .40 Dead Center bullets in LBCR's behind 84gr BH 209 at over 2400fps very accurately out to the 200yds I've shot them. In the Paramount I'd like to see some data on .40/45 sabots with 105gr BH 209 charges gets & the accuracy get posted by someone.

I think Toby may have shot some sabot loads and posted the data he got. He is on the Cutting Edge bullet kick so its not quite apples to apples but the weight is similar. I dont remember him posting speeds that high though. Them CEB monos can be brutal on sabots with loads like that.
 
I'd hate to see this thread fizzle out and die so I'll add a little more. It's been a very interesting thread, lotsa good info. I've picked up a few good tips and learned some things.

I shot my 45 caliber Paramount yesterday for the first time. I took two spacers out of the stock and it fits me nicely. I put a Burris Fullfield II scope on it in Leupold rings and bases. The scope is 3x9x40, matte, with the Ballistic Plex reticle. I have several of these Burris scopes. Rifle with scope, without sling, weighs 10.5 lb. I did the Lee Shaver barrel burnishing. I've done it before. I listened to what CVA said and bought Blackhorn 209 from MidSouth Shooters supply and a hundred Powerbelt ELR's, supposedly 285 grain. The package of Powerbelts that came with the gun were labeled 225 grains. That seemed wrong to me (DUH), so i weighed all 15 of them, They varied from 290.5 to 292.7 grains. No 3 bullets weighed the same. I find that really poor. The brochure in the bullets packaging shows they're 280 grains. So on to loading and shooting. I was on paper at 25 yds with the first shot making sure the scope was on straight. Then I shot 2 more to confirm that the turrets moved the reticle as it was supposed to. The Burris responded perfectly. Then I moved the target to 100 yds.
For about the past 40 or so years, most of my targets are an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of notebook paper with a 1 inch black square printed or drawn with a magic marker in the center with horizontal and vertical lines with marks on the lines at 1 inch intervals. Each target is used as a record of the shots and lotsa notes are written on each target. Each target is then kept in a 3 ring binder ($1 from Dollar Tree). I use pushpins to hold the target paper to a cardboard backing attached to a repurposed old wire 'for sale' sign. One of the tips I learned here was from MtMonkey's photos of his targets. I use thumbtacks or pushpins to hold my targets rather than having someone hold the target with their thumb. Someday he's gonna slip up and shoot that guys thumb off. Safety first!. Just go back in this thread and you'll see what I mean. Oh, I'm sorry.
Well anyway, I shot the 290+ grain Powerbelts from my benchrest. 70 degrees, almost dead calm, partly sunny. Really a perfect day for shooting here in west central Wisconsin. Rock solid on the rest, good trigger control, breathing was good...and the 3 shot groups I shot were all crap! CRAP! I started at 70 grains, then 80, then 85, then 94, then 100, then 105. The groups ranged from 1.66 to 2.3 inches. Not anywhere near what I expected based on what I'd read.
Another thing I read on these forum threads is how bad the recoil is from this gun with the 105 grain charge of BH209. I'll betcha a dime I'm older and smaller than most, if not all of you, and I didn't find the recoil at 105 grains to be very bad at all. I can load my Marlin 45-70 so it can break my collarbone, I do't like that at all so i download it. I wouldn't even shoot a friends 458 Lott. I don't really like my 7mmSTW. But these loads weren't bad at all. I thought from what I read that I'll need a muzzlebrake like what Ninering62 has. It's really, really nice. But as of yesterday, I see no concern with recoil.

Now I've gotta figure out what went wrong with the accuracy.

What I'd also like from you deer hunters is more accounts of what 45 caliber bullets you shot deer with. Details, lotsa details. Bullet make, model and weight, muzzle velocity, range to deer, where deer was hit, size of deer, amount of penetration, amount of meat damage. Were they big northern bucks or those little central Florida deer? Those Fury 265StB's sure look good on paper, but I don't know if they're proven on deer yet. I hope so! I can shoot about 250 yds on my little cornfield and maybe 400 across the swamp so, I need a bullet that works at all ranges.

So hows that for a dissertation. Go get another cuppa coffee. I'm going to read your replies. And hey, Thanks to all of you!

Ninering, during the winter I live in your neighborhood. I'd probably be happy to meet ya, shoot with ya, and talk Harleys too.
WOW Decay, fantastic post. Thank you for the great read & the continuing of this thread. It is, what brought me into MML & led to me getting my Paramount & opening up a whole new incredibly amazing world in muzzleloading. Plus the incredible education I've gotten from this thread & group. Thank you for sharing what you have been doing with your Paramount. I always enjoy reading those posts. I'll tell ya this, if you didn't find the felt recoil of those 105gr BH 209 charges with the 280ELR's not bad at all, then I am impressed as can be. It sure as heck was too much for me to manage more than a single shot while hunting, or a 3 shot group. The first 10 shots I fired, I didn't want to see #11 & had had enough. Now I can shoot it all day if I could afford to.
I've only had the op to shoot these small-mid sized Fl deer thus far, & have only taken deer with the ELR's.
I can tell ya this about the Fury 265gr .453 STB bullets, you won't be a bit disappointed with them. Thats a fantastic deer bullet & 400yds wont be a prob for the gun or the bullet. They shoot very well out of the Accura too.
 
Fury 453 stb,, get you a sizing die,, try a wad it did not make much difference on mine but I sure think it's worth trying ,other people swear by,, start out at 70 grains by weight and work your way up,, and I agree,, if that 105 grains is not heavy recoil for you, you have great shooting skills and follow through, I'd like to sit beside you or my little bit behind you and watch you shoot sometime,, my Paramount shoots better dirty usually 7/8 shots before it really settles in,, I only have shot Black Horn,,, I haven't been shooting my Paramount because I have no Black Horn but I do remember a distinct accuracy node I think it was 75 grains in my rifle by weight. Warm weather bore I don't have to size that bullet it seats fine cool weather I have to bump it just a little
 
Mtn Monkey: Ya wanna watch me shoot? HAHA Just invite me to Texas to shoot pigs. I'll drive down, shoot with you, teach all I know about benchrest shooting (and hunt with you if you want). I'll even show you how to use push pins instead of having someone hold the target with their thumb. But not in February, March, or April, because then I live in Florida (close to Ninering). And not in the heat of summer when it's sooooo damn hot. December and January are good. I was in Texas to hunt pigs in 2008 and 2009. Loved it.... until the temps got above 70 degrees. I hauled several coolers. Filled 'em with pig meat. The first year I camped in my truck and after meeting some fantastic local guys I stayed with them. I shot a few and brought 'em home for my retirement party. I hunted somewhere west of Texarcana. Dallas is 1000 miles from my house. Where are you at?
The Paramount might be fun to hunt pigs with. Albeit kinda slow to reload. I've got a couple others that might be even more fun. A Springfield M1A is n 308 Winchester is what I used in '08 and '09. I also have a Remington R25 (an AR10) in 243Winchester, with a suppressor. Incredibly accurate! I could probably borrow a FLIR night vision scope again to put back on it. That's really cool.
 
I think Toby may have shot some sabot loads and posted the data he got. He is on the Cutting Edge bullet kick so its not quite apples to apples but the weight is similar. I dont remember him posting speeds that high though. Them CEB monos can be brutal on sabots with loads like that.
Thats what I kept reading about the CEB's blowin sabots bein push too fast & I personally don't want to use a frangible bullet on my food. On a threat, is a different story, I'd be very inclined to use that bullet for that. I was interested in trying them until I started reading more about them. Not that they are a " Bad bullet " by any means. Just not a suited bullet for any application I want to go. IDK what was so weird about the MMP sabots not shooting anything I put in them worth a darn. The LBRS's are flawlessly at any MV I've been able to achieve & very accurate. I was pushing 200gr SST's & the 220 DC's pretty fast ( I was pleasantly surprised at my chrony readings really. I was not expecting to see over 2400fps ) with no probs or complaints. I'll be keeping that hunting load in my Accura, but I will be gettin more 265 STB's .453 to shoot as well. Both Paramount & Accura like that bullet.
 
Hey guys just shot my 2020 paramount for the first time this evening at 100 yrds with mixed results

The first two were close but 3 and 4 dropped low. They all felt like good shots. The fifth shot grouped with the top two.
Just mounted the scope and cva muzzle brake last evening.
I was shooting 100gr BH by weight and the 280elrs. After reading about the 265 fury’s on here I was wanting to give them a try but I ran some .451 Hornady bullets I had down the barrel and the bore didn’t seem very consistent.Tighter toward the breach plug.

Maybe my group will tighten up with a dirty bore? Should I try running a dry patch between shots. Normally I would just keep shooting and figure something out but with BH being scarce right now I was looking for some suggestions
Thanks
-MikeF15670E2-97F7-41C2-A3D3-5B0CAA0A3544.jpeg
 
Shoot it more,, adjust load down couple grains,, sure looks like your guns wanting to shoot to me if that's the first group, I would shoot that same charge again too ,,mine doesn't shoot good until it's got eight or nine shots on it I never swab my bore , with black horn , if I'm seating a bull rider bullet feels a little rough too you can always lap the barrel when you do clean the gun, get that bore feeling more uniform.. be looking for the next group pics,,go Paramount!!!
 
Hey guys just shot my 2020 paramount for the first time this evening at 100 yrds with mixed results

The first two were close but 3 and 4 dropped low. They all felt like good shots. The fifth shot grouped with the top two.
Just mounted the scope and cva muzzle brake last evening.
I was shooting 100gr BH by weight and the 280elrs. After reading about the 265 fury’s on here I was wanting to give them a try but I ran some .451 Hornady bullets I had down the barrel and the bore didn’t seem very consistent.Tighter toward the breach plug.

Maybe my group will tighten up with a dirty bore? Should I try running a dry patch between shots. Normally I would just keep shooting and figure something out but with BH being scarce right now I was looking for some suggestions
Thanks
-Mike

If those 5 rounds are the very first rounds you've sent from the rifle, I'd suggest you shoot it some more with the same combination a couple more times. As for a dry patch between rounds, your rifle will tell you that but its also something you can determine down the road. Some rifles will shoot excellent without swabbing between rounds, others may want a dry patch, or even a damp patch followed by dry. The different barrels are not identical.

IF... it continues to want to throw a couple rounds during each session, you may want to take the brake off and shoot a couple groups.
It just boggles my mind how many Paramount shooters have installed the CVA brake, only to remove them to get the rifle to group, at all. CVA has now came out with a different brake, but one person who just received his yesterday has an issue before even installing it.



CVA NEW MODEL BRAKE no name attached.jpg
 
Hey guys just shot my 2020 paramount for the first time this evening at 100 yrds with mixed results

The first two were close but 3 and 4 dropped low. They all felt like good shots. The fifth shot grouped with the top two.
Just mounted the scope and cva muzzle brake last evening.
I was shooting 100gr BH by weight and the 280elrs. After reading about the 265 fury’s on here I was wanting to give them a try but I ran some .451 Hornady bullets I had down the barrel and the bore didn’t seem very consistent.Tighter toward the breach plug.

Maybe my group will tighten up with a dirty bore? Should I try running a dry patch between shots. Normally I would just keep shooting and figure something out but with BH being scarce right now I was looking for some suggestions
Thanks
-MikeView attachment 14621
Congrats on shootin your new Paramount. I agree with Mtn monkey your gun looks like it wants to shoot. Figure out what was diff that made those 2 shots drop like that, then dialer in at 200 & still shoot groups like that. Then enjoy hunting with it.
In shooting the 50-60 ELR's I've shot in the beginning when I got mine, an issue with accuracy did arise at a point when I was learning how much seating pressure is enough & went too much. I loaded a 105gr charge ( that's all I've shot since the first load ) then the ELR at what I thought was the same down force I used the last cpl shots where I developed a spread instead of a group. I then pulled BP & pushed bullet through. What caused the accuracy issue was, I had used too much seating pressure & damaged the plastic cup on the bottom of these bullets. I corrected that & had absolutely no accuracy issues. My Paramount shoots extremely well.
 
They don’t seem to want ANY Part of that? :)

Didnt NMLRA change the BH209 rules to allow rifle manufactures max load to be used? So in a Paramount they can now use them super duper loads and not be limited to the max Western publishes?
 
Back
Top