Finally... New Knight and White

[MrTom]

Accuracy between 240 grains up to and including the 300 grain doesn't change a whole lot. Point of impact will change, not only in height but windage-wise too just not a whole lot. Velocity changes if the heavier load is used on lighter bullets. All of my 50 cal long guns use the 209 powder that's weighed for charging. All of the long guns use the 300 grain bullets. Sabot use between guns can be different. All of the 50 cal long guns are used for deer at ranges under 100 yards but the guns are sighted for 100 yards. I use the 300 grain fodder for its retained energy should reach out to that 100 yards. I know that the loads will pretty much drop a deer on the spot and Minnesota's deer are substantially larger as a rule than your Carolina deer.

I have a .45 caliber long gun that shoots a 200 grain, .40 caliber XTP with a blue sabot and 70 weighed grains of 209 into a dime sized hole all day. It too is sighted for 100 yards but I use this gun only if I am hunting fringe where there is zero chance of having to shoot through and grass or brush. This is a deadly deer gun.

My pet weapon is the Optima pistol. Its .50 caliber and shoots a .44 caliber XTP into quarter sized groups at 50 yards with the red dot and a 63 grain weighed charge of 209 powder and a plain green sabot. Deer do not like this gun. Every one I have shot using this pistol has been under 20 yards and if not dropped right on the spot was super easy to track.

You note that I prefer the .44 cal bullets over the .45 cal of the same, or near same, weights. This is simply my preference as I get slightly better accuracy using the smaller diameter pills, but I do not make a size sacrifice if the energy levels fall below a point that I think I'll be wounding deer because it didn't have the umph to work as the bullet was designed. All of these guns and bullets have been field proven on deer and I am more than happy with the results. Like many here I am older and have a real focused hunting ideal. I do not take chance shots and never shoot at a running or walking deer. Personally this is my opinion: I firmly believe that in any hunting venue a person should shoot the stoutest load, that is proven to deliver the accuracy and bullet performance, that he can shoot accurately and SAFELY. If one is flinching or getting scope cuts from recoil, something then has to change to make these disappear.

Everybody here has a bit of good information to share. If I were to offer anything else it would be simply this. Nobody know you better than you. You know where your accuracy falls off. You know what level of recoil you can handle safely. With that in mind, use this other information to develop the loads in the gun you will use to hunt with with CONFIDENCE. Shoot a lot and try different loads and sabots and bullets and different weights of bullets. Spend some time looking at Ron's water bottle testing....I'll edit in a link for you to click on. There you'll find a ton of pictured bullet expansion testing that can help with bullet choices. But above all, be sure you're confident with yourself and your gun and its load when you hit the field. Second guessing with a live animal in the sights is the wrong time to be second guessing.

 

[RoJo]

Accuracy between 240 grains up to and including the 300 grain doesn't change a whole lot. Point of impact will change, not only in height but windage-wise too just not a whole lot. Velocity changes if the heavier load is used on lighter bullets. All of my 50 cal long guns use the 209 powder that's weighed for charging. All of the long guns use the 300 grain bullets. Sabot use between guns can be different. All of the 50 cal long guns are used for deer at ranges under 100 yards but the guns are sighted for 100 yards. I use the 300 grain fodder for its retained energy should reach out to that 100 yards. I know that the loads will pretty much drop a deer on the spot and Minnesota's deer are substantially larger as a rule than your Carolina deer.

I have a .45 caliber long gun that shoots a 200 grain, .40 caliber XTP with a blue sabot and 70 weighed grains of 209 into a dime sized hole all day. It too is sighted for 100 yards but I use this gun only if I am hunting fringe where there is zero chance of having to shoot through and grass or brush. This is a deadly deer gun.

My pet weapon is the Optima pistol. Its .50 caliber and shoots a .44 caliber XTP into quarter sized groups at 50 yards with the red dot and a 63 grain weighed charge of 209 powder and a plain green sabot. Deer do not like this gun. Every one I have shot using this pistol has been under 20 yards and if not dropped right on the spot was super easy to track.

You note that I prefer the .44 cal bullets over the .45 cal of the same, or near same, weights. This is simply my preference as I get slightly better accuracy using the smaller diameter pills, but I do not make a size sacrifice if the energy levels fall below a point that I think I'll be wounding deer because it didn't have the umph to work as the bullet was designed. All of these guns and bullets have been field proven on deer and I am more than happy with the results. Like many here I am older and have a real focused hunting ideal. I do not take chance shots and never shoot at a running or walking deer. Personally this is my opinion: I firmly believe that in any hunting venue a person should shoot the stoutest load, that is proven to deliver the accuracy and bullet performance, that he can shoot accurately and SAFELY. If one is flinching or getting scope cuts from recoil, something then has to change to make these disappear.

Everybody here has a bit of good information to share. If I were to offer anything else it would be simply this. Nobody know you better than you. You know where your accuracy falls off. You know what level of recoil you can handle safely. With that in mind, use this other information to develop the loads in the gun you will use to hunt with with CONFIDENCE. Shoot a lot and try different loads and sabots and bullets and different weights of bullets. Spend some time looking at Ron's water bottle testing....I'll edit in a link for you to click on. There you'll find a ton of pictured bullet expansion testing that can help with bullet choices. But above all, be sure you're confident with yourself and your gun and its load when you hit the field. Second guessing with a live animal in the sights is the wrong time to be second guessing.

Your wisdom and expertise is greatly appreciated. I just received a sample pack of Harvester black sabots and a sample of 240 gr. PT Gold bullets. John sent me the sabots to see if they gave me a better fit than the TEZ I used last week. I'll put the PT's away for the time being.

My primary interest with ML was to give myself some quality pre-season time on public GL before the centerfire hunters and their dogs got into the woods. I also decided that the Accura would be a good substitute for my Marlin lever actions in dense woods and creek bottoms (50-100 yards. I'm at the point now that I need to work on some loads that will allow me to carry the ML throughout the entire season. I suppose the challenge will be to find a load for the dense habitat the will also suffice if I leave the creek bottoms and find myself in more open space with 150-250 yard shots. It seems from what I've read thus far that it's not going to be complicated, just time-demanding. I'm keeping track of all the feedback I see so I have a starting point. I suppose my greatest advantage is that I'm only hunting Whitetail. I have the time and access to the range to put the time in. I look forward to seeing more of your posts.

P.S. Do you have the link to Ron's water bottle testing? Thanks again.

 

[MrTom]

Sorry....got busy. Here you go:

http://rchs61.org/completecapture.htm

 

[gman57]

I voted for Knight because I really like the feel of it but I use my Accura maybe a little more.

 

[RoJo]

Sorry....got busy. Here you go:

http://rchs61.org/completecapture.htm

Holy cow, looks like work? (lol). I had to retire from teaching to have cervical spine implants and they told me to keep my brain active with challenging puzzles, good reading, etc. I guess this MM site and Ron's testing data is what they had in mind. Looks interesting.

Before I jumped into my wife's chore list I peeked at his test on the 250 gr. T-EZ. That is one of two bullets I took the range last week, solely because of the success that "BuckandDoe" reports that he and his family have in their Accura over the years -and to this day. I was disappointed when I saw his first test with zilch. Felt a little better with the second test with carpet and plywood. I felt really good when I saw his third TEZ test (parameter adjustment). The BuckandDoe comments that the nicely expanded bullet is what they see when a deer is dropped. Maybe in another range trip of two the TEZ will be my initial security blanket while I spend time testing others.

When it comes to harvesting deer I am quite a bit like you. As I did growing up on the farm in the mountains I am a meat-hunter. What meat we had on the table either came off the mountain or from the Barnyard. I am obsessed with placing my shots so the only thing torn up is a rib bone and vital organs. It gets immediately dressed, quartered, and on ice before I drive away (unless I'm close to home).

I think I'm a pretty good hunter and I know I'm a pretty good shot. Because the process of finding a good CF round was never time consuming or difficult I never became a ballistics guru like some of you guys.In the short time exposed to ML, this is far more challenging and rewarding than CF. Fact of life, time consumers like Twitter and Facebook have become obsolete and TV time is scarce. As I continue to saturate my brain with ML knowledge I see plenty of bullets that claim status for its accuracy that far exceeds that of competitors.Then I read hunter's comments about the poor terminal performance and knockdown of the bullet. I am in search of the bullets that do both. I'm beginning to feel that the TEZ, or even the TMZ /MZ might at least get me started. Again, I appreciate Ron's link.