Knight KRB7 powder questions

[jsteurrys]

It looks like things are coming together for you. I have never experienced a Crud Ring using BH 209 in any of my DISC based guns. I sure have though with Triple 7 in those same guns.

What are you cleaning or preserving the bore with a Sabotloader believes that could be some of the problem?

What size is your flame channel? It looks like you opened it up to 5/32". I do not believe a vent liner will do anything for the Crud Ring problem.

What is the firing pin diameter in that gun?

 

[ShawnT]

jsturreys,

I use either Knight oil or Breakfree CLP to preserve the bore after cleaning. I use either alcohol, knight bore cleaner or Windex to swab with before shooting, usually windex.

I did not open the flash channel, it is still OEM and you can use a #19 drill bit to clean the carbon off, so it is about .165 - .166. They are already larger that what Sabotloader is drilling them too.

The Firing pin is .089.

I don't think that a vent liner will help either. I think I might just shoot it as it now is. I have seen that some recommend the Montana Bore Conditioner to preserve the barrel and limit the crud ring so I might try some of it, next time I order some stuff.

 

[GM54-120]

I think im seeing a variable that is staying the same...the location of the ring. If the bore was subjected to a T7 crud ring in a similar location for a period of time it may have effected the bore in that spot.

For instance
People that used the Knight Powerstem usually reported some erosion in the same location...near the flashhole. They got less crud ring but it left a ring in the metal.

What oil are you using in the bore and have you used JBs since the last time you shot T7?

Has the majority of your shooting been with the same VOLUME of powder?

On a completely clean bore does loading pressure feel the same all the way down? Does it feel noticeably easier near the powder or other areas?

None of my current guns have shot any T7 and all but 2 have been polished with JBs. The only 2 guns i had before did get a good polish before i started with BH209. Mainly to make sure any trace of RemOil (Teflon) was gone and one bore was a bit tight.

I also store all of mine with MX Bore Conditioner now. Im not sure if it makes a huge difference but cleanup is easier and first shot POI is better after extended use. They were all brand new guns so....

 

[jsteurrys]

The Firing pin is .089.

Thanks for the response. The reason that I asked about the firing pin diameter is it looks like you got little to no primer protrusion. I need to modify my DISC bolt guns to a smaller diameter firing pin to better support the primer as I am still getting some protrusion.

 

[ShawnT]

GMB54-120,

I think im seeing a variable that is staying the same...the location of the ring. If the bore was subjected to a T7 crud ring in a similar location for a period of time it may have effected the bore in that spot.

Why would the location of the crud ring change with a different powder? While I know that a larger of volume of powder may make a difference in where the bullet/sabot sits, not sure that really has anything to do with it. I did not actually measure "Where" the ring was with both powders, to me it just looks like it is in the same place. It could be a little more forward with T7 and back with BH, but you would have to measure to see the difference.

What oil are you using in the bore and have you used JBs since the last time you shot T7

Usually Knight oil, sometimes Breakfree CLP. Yes it has been Jb'ed a few times and it was done between shooting T7 last time and BH this time.

Has the majority of your shooting been with the same VOLUME of powder?

Yes. I shot lighter and heavier charges of T7, but 110gnV was where it shot best. So I decided to try the same Volume of BH.

On a completely clean bore does loading pressure feel the same all the way down? Does it feel noticeably easier near the powder or other areas?

Yes. It feels nice and smooth and consistant all the way down on a clean bore.

They were all brand new guns so....

This was a new rifle also. I just got the rifle in November and it has not had that many rounds though it, I have not used the first can of T7 yet. I have seen no Pitting in the bore. It is brite and shiny all the way from muzzle to BP threads.

 

[ShawnT]

jsteurrys,

The primers still sit flat on the paper it looks like they bulged just up to the top of the cup.

Here they are turned up.

Hope that helps.

 

[Anonymous]

When shooting BH209 start with a squeeky clean bore, no oil no Windex no nothing. Dry patch it dry to start and do not swab between shots. If you are swabbing with windex between shots you are smearing the residue in the bore all around. Try not swabbing at all after removing all oil from your bore. If you really want to swab between shots then swab with a lightly oiled patch that will grab and hold the residue then follow up by dry patching the oil out. I have shot BH209 in many different muzzleloaders and have never experienced a crud ring. A few of the guns were T7 shooters a few years ago and have no issues with BH209.

 

[GM54-120]

Im out of ideas then besides trying the MX Bore Conditioner and trying a different pre shooting procedure. I doubt yours is doing it but i just fire 2 primers and run a dry patch with the MX. No other cleaning during the rest of the session, i only make sure the flash hole is clear.

I get no ring at all in all my guns with BH209. The only time i did get some gummy type residue was with Teflon in products like RemOil. It got worse near the powder and terrible if the powder was T7. (much harder) I had to use brake cleaner on a patch to get rid of it before shooting.

BTW those primers look great. I wish i could get the RemSTS to look like that in all of mine. My tightest plug is almost as nice.

 

[ShawnT]

smyers717,

I cleaned out the oil today before shooting with a couple of alcohol saturated patches and a few dry patches. Then Swabbed with alcohol and dry between shots. I forgot the windex a home.

 

[Anonymous]

If you are experiencing a crud ring with BH209 I would definitely call Western Powders and speak with Don. My shooting sessions begin just as GM54-120's. That is if I remember to swab the bore conditioner out. With the Montana X-treme conditioner my bores do not mind it in there for 1st shot.

When you say crud ring are you saying it was hard to scrub out or hard to push a bullet/sabot through. BH209 does leave residue after the first shot but it acts almost like a lubricant and make loading the 2nd shot as easy or easier. Did you try a few shots without swabbing?

 

[GM54-120]

That is if I remember to swab the bore conditioner out.

Thats what made me really like it. I forgot a few times and it didnt seem to be a problem.

 

[Hornet22savage]

I see that shawn beat me too it. I fired my KRB today five shots BH209 80 gr./V 200 gr. Shockwaves stock sabot, Win209. All five shot fired flawlessly. I did not check accuracy as it was in the teens with a brisk wind. I started on a dry bore and had no crud ring and all shot loaded thae same as the first. My Plug has a ventliner installed .050 below the edge of the plug and has been opened upto .035 flash hole. I recessed mt primer pocket .014. Here are my primers.

I love this stuff. :lol: 8)

 

[ShawnT]

I doubt yours is doing it but i just fire 2 primers and run a dry patch with the MX.

I swab out the bore of all oil prior to shooting, then pop 2 primers just like you. I also always leave the dry patch on the rod, run it down to the bp and then fire the primer. Then push it down to the BP and remove it. I do both primers that way to verify ignition.

The only time i did get some gummy type residue was with Teflon in products like RemOil. It got worse near the powder and terrible if the powder was T7. (much harder) I had to use brake cleaner on a patch to get rid of it before shooting.

The Crud ring is dry not a gummy subtance. The Crud ring with T7 was VERY Hard. With BH209 it is not near as much and removes with one alcohol swab. It builds up the more rounds you shoot. 3 was the most I allowed today.

smeyers717 wrote

When you say crud ring are you saying it was hard to scrub out or hard to push a bullet/sabot through. BH209 does leave residue after the first shot but it acts almost like a lubricant and make loading the 2nd shot as easy or easier. Did you try a few shots without swabbing?

I am talking about a crud ring that would be located just under the sabot/bullet when charged, not a "residue" in the bore. While there is a residue that is not the issue. I can load multiple rounds, but when I did the crud ring built up thicker and harder. The residue was different each time causing loading pressure to vary from muzzle to breech too and groups opened up. I resorted back to swabbing between shots and accuracy was better. I only swabbed at the very beginning to check for the crud ring due to the VERY BAD and HARD crud ring I experienced with T7 after installing the o-ring. With the crud ring from BH I can use one alcohol dampened patch and short stroke it a few times to remove, then dry patch it.

I have not shot as much BH209 as most of you, but am not new to it. I have shot it in a Disc Elite and an MK95 with NO crid ring.

 

[Anonymous]

Hornet22savage,

Did you have any type of crud ring?
I am glad you got it firing.

 

[jsteurrys]

I believe that the Knight Oil has teflon in it. I have read that many people shy away from using any oils with teflon. I have never used any oils with teflon in my guns so I can not comment if it makes a difference or not.

 

[Hornet22savage]

Here is another look at my Win209 primers.

 

[Anonymous]

Looks like 100% blowback free which results in all the heat making it to the powder. Excellent modification you came up with.

 

[Hornet22savage]

I can't take all of the credit for this, most of it was Shawn T's idea. He got the ball rolling with the heavier detent spring for the block and the idea of installing the o-ring. I just turned his wanting a cleaner action into shooting BH209. :lol:

 

[jsteurrys]

ShawnT,

Those primers look great IMO.

 

[ShawnT]

jstuerrys,

I think they look purty good too. I am very happy with the way this has progressed.

I also think you are right about the Knight oil. I have been thinking about it, and even though the new bottle does not say it on the lable, I seem to remember that it originally did say it had Teflon in it. The Knight Cleaner that I sometimes use (always in my MK95) also used to have Slick 50 in it, but that bottle does not say that either. Knight does not put a "Contains XXX" on the lables.

The only other oil I have is some Shooter Choice FP10. I will have to order the Montana Xtreme, I have never seen anyone locally cart any of their products. The FP10 does not say anything about Teflon in the ingredients on the Lable, atually is does say "Contains No Solid Lubricants (PTFE) to build up or change tolerances". I think tomorrow I will scrub the bore, JB it again, and then finish it with some carb and choke cleaner then apply a little FP10 since I have no idea on when I will get to shoot again. Hopefully that will be the cause of the crud ring and correct it.

Hornet22Savage,

Aint it grand when it works out like that! :lol: 8) Never know what will happen when you start modifying stuff. I also can't take credit for the o-ring part, that has been going for a while here, maybe just applying it to the KRB and changing the spring.