Looking for Info

[GM54-120]

If i was shooting the Acurra 45 1-22 LR i would be looking at heavier conicals too. A 350gr will shoot fine but if long range is the goal something over 400gr is a better choice. Dan at BS has a interesting mold. Its a 405 or 415gr HP when cast in his normal alloy. In pure lead or 30-1 it might be 420+. Even that is on the smaller side for a 1-22. You can shoot at least a Bullshop 488 no problem.

 

[edmehlig]

70gr by volume is all i use in my 45cal with a 350gr. Totally happy with the load.

Ditto!

 

[GM54-120]

I love some of the wiz bang loads but that 350gr HP is so simple. Its cheap/easy to shoot and does exactly what it should do. Dan has a old Lee 458 HP mold also. Its not listed in the blackpowder offerings. Last i checked with him they were around $45/100. Thats for lubed, sized down to .451 or 452, pure lead and shipped.

 

[Sideshow]

This is 95+% of what i am looking for. But it may be all there is out there pre-made for sale....
http://www.spinjag.com/spinjag_starter.php
It could use a ring to fit the barrel o.d. to center itself perfectly . This is what ive asked about in dwb forum--- where do i find one of them ???
Check it out for yourself as well !!! I consider this a necessity for over bore sized pure lead .
Myself ive already figured out the ignition system to use blackhorn in a plunger rifle without blowback . To load the conicals oversize and the knowledge on how to use them w blackhorn is awesome !!! Thanks Busta and GM54--120 !!!

 

[knightnut2000]

I have a spin jag but it is for like the barns bullets, do they make a solid Flat ended jag I wonder Ill check into that.

Well here is what I found it's the only thing I think that may not mar up the meplat much at all

$5
may be worth a try for $5

 

[Sideshow]

I have a spin jag but it is for like the barns bullets, do they make a solid Flat ended jag I wonder Ill check into that.

I meant their starter which is different . This gets an over diameter conical down the bore much easier and precisely . Touch the blue spinjag writimg to veiw the link.

 

[knightnut2000]

All you gents are so AWESOME

O the starter yep I seen that too

 

[Busta]

If you are shooting the lead bullets in the CVA's, you have a 1/4" long BGM (Bullet Guiding Muzzle) to get the bullet started in the rifling.

If they are 0.001" - 0.002" over bore, that is really nothing to get started.

If you are having difficulties, you can take an unloaded rifle, remove the breech plug, and push the bullets into the rifling nose first. You can go just far enough to get the rifling kerfs established, then push them back out. This is called pre-rifling. You can do just a few to see how you like them, or do the whole box / package in just a couple minutes.

As far as shallow rifling, that is exactly what you want to have for shooting big lead conicals. My Whites are only 0.0035" deep, and my NEF / H&R, Knights are in the 0.004" - 0.0045" deep range. All of them load very easy and shoot very acceptable groups.

 

[Sideshow]

If you are shooting the lead bullets in the CVA's, you have a 1/4" long BGM (Bullet Guiding Muzzle) to get the bullet started in the rifling.

If they are 0.001" - 0.002" over bore, that is really nothing to get started.

If you are having difficulties, you can take an unloaded rifle, remove the breech plug, and push the bullets into the rifling nose first. You can go just far enough to get the rifling kerfs established, then push them back out. This is called pre-rifling. You can do just a few to see how you like them, or do the whole box / package in just a couple minutes.

As far as shallow rifling, that is exactly what you want to have for shooting big lead conicals. My Whites are only 0.0035" deep, and my NEF / H&R, Knights are in the 0.004" - 0.0045" deep range. All of them load very easy and shoot very acceptable groups.

Huh , Busta , so does that leave me loading the Super 91 410 (wilson barrel crown) using the spin-jag starter like i thought ?? A knurled up bullet ?? My bore is slightly tapered breech to muzzle . I already thought of pulling the plug and pushing it through but im worried about the base getting tweaked . Best ive come up with is to use a paper patch bullet knurled up over size with a cupped base . But what do i do about a wad then ??? File it flat ?? A duplex w 3f/blackhorn ?? Or use Doc's solution used to win the Manufacters Match ?? Which is basically what has been suggested already . I dont cast . White used to offer 412 bullets and get poly wads like Doc did or the veggie wad ?? I dont mean to butt in but sometimes ya gotta bail hay while the sun is shining !!! Our Nov 15th opener is getting close !!! Commercially that .410 bore kinda leaves me hanging for options .

 

[Busta]

Huh , Busta , so does that leave me loading the Super 91 410 (wilson barrel crown) using the spin-jag starter like i thought ?? A knurled up bullet ?? My bore is slightly tapered breech to muzzle . I already thought of pulling the plug and pushing it through but im worried about the base getting tweaked . Best ive come up with is to use a paper patch bullet knurled up over size with a cupped base . But what do i do about a wad then ??? File it flat ?? A duplex w 3f/blackhorn ?? Or use Doc's solution used to win the Manufacters Match ?? Which is basically what has been suggested already . I dont cast . White used to offer 412 bullets and get poly wads like Doc did or the veggie wad ?? I dont mean to butt in but sometimes ya gotta bail hay while the sun is shining !!! Our Nov 15th opener is getting close !!! Commercially that .410 bore kinda leaves me hanging for options .

Sorry, I was addressing knightnut2000 loading and shooting 0.001" - 0.002" over bore all lead conicals in his .50 cal CVA Accura V2 with Blackhorn 209. If you are not shooting Blackhorn 209 in your Super 91 .410, you don't need over bore bullets, you can use slip fit bullets at or slightly under bore.


I was addressing this below. Sorry for the confusion.

Hello everyone I just acquired a CVA ACCURA V2 SS Thumb hole Stock and My question is has anyone been able to shoot conical's with good results? The rifling's look very shallow and I want to shoot conical's in this gun but not sure how it will perform with such type rifling's. Any info would be helpful Thank you

Thanks guys I was thinking on the 460gr NEX or the 440gr UC Shorts with BH 209 or even 3F T7 with a over powder wad. MOST of my hunting is 100 yds or less more like 75 and less in thick cover So do you think a longer or shorter conical may shoot better

 

[Sideshow]

Sorry, I was addressing knightnut2000 loading and shooting 0.001" - 0.002" over bore all lead conicals in his .50 cal CVA Accura V2 with Blackhorn 209. If you are not shooting Blackhorn 209 in your Super 91 .410, you don't need over bore bullets, you can use slip fit bullets at or slightly under bore.


I was addressing this below. Sorry for the confusion.

No problem !!! Yes ive been useing blackhorn with a self made sabot from a 410 shotgun wad (.388 bullet) and a mag spark small rifle conversion nipple for sidelocks . Bullet seems to work best at 330 gr but im close to maxed out length . Wanna shoot a conical thats bore sized and 400+ gr . But need some help getting there !!! I DO WANT to USE BLACKHORN with big lead in that rifle !!! i know im not the only guy with a slight taper situation . I could attach the bottom of my sabot to it but damn thats alot of work !!! How would you seal this bore up best in your opinion ??? What do you think i should do if you wore my shoes ???

 

[Sideshow]

Sorry, I was addressing knightnut2000 loading and shooting 0.001" - 0.002" over bore all lead conicals in his .50 cal CVA Accura V2 with Blackhorn 209. If you are not shooting Blackhorn 209 in your Super 91 .410, you don't need over bore bullets, you can use slip fit bullets at or slightly under bore.


I was addressing this below. Sorry for the confusion.

????? Wbere 'd you go ?????

 

[Busta]

No problem !!! Yes ive been useing blackhorn with a self made sabot from a 410 shotgun wad (.388 bullet) and a mag spark small rifle conversion nipple for sidelocks . Bullet seems to work best at 330 gr but im close to maxed out length . Wanna shoot a conical thats bore sized and 400+ gr . But need some help getting there !!! I DO WANT to use blackhorn with big lead in that rifle !!! i know im not the only guy with a slight taper situation . I could attach the bottom of my sabot to it but damn thats alot of work !!!

You say slightly tapered from breech to muzzle, does that mean tighter at the muzzle or the breech? I'm assuming that it means the muzzle is choked tighter?

I've used 28ga powder cups cut off the shotgun wads under conical bullets in my .50 calibers before. They are a perfect fit, just like the base of a sabot with the petals cut off. They are a whole lot less money, and are formulated to withstand the heat and pressures that those exotic powders produce.

The Sagebrush Veggie Wads, or two, do just fine, seal out the elements better, provide a better seal for ignition, and protect the base of the bullet.

You could probably get by with 60 - 70 grains Blackhorn 209 by VOLUME in the .410?

 

[Sideshow]

You say slightly tapered from breech to muzzle, does that mean tighter at the muzzle or the breech? I'm assuming that it means the muzzle is choked tighter?

I've used 28ga powder cups cut off the shotgun wads under conical bullets in my .50 calibers before. They are a perfect fit, just like the base of a sabot with the petals cut off. They are a whole lot less money, and are formulated to withstand the heat and pressures that those exotic powders produce.

The Sagebrush Veggie Wads, or two, do just fine, seal out the elements better, provide a better seal for ignition, and protect the base of the bullet.

You could probably get by with 60 - 70 grains Blackhorn 209 by VOLUME in the .410?

Yes its choked at the muzzle , in fact a gradual taper till the muzzle . Id guess 60-to70 would be right . It does best w 400 powerpunch @80 grv of pyro p ( nasty) now . REALLY want to be rid of ALL dirty subs .

 

[Sideshow]

Yes its choked at the muzzle , in fact a gradual taper till the muzzle . Id guess 60-to70 would be right . It does best w 400 powerpunch @80 grv of pyro p ( nasty) now . REALLY want to be rid of ALL dirty subs .

Thanks Busta !!! I'll figure it out . Cant believe i shot up ALL my sabot special roumds yesterday , what an IDIOT !!! Cant believe i did that . Under 2" groups @200 85grw blackhorn , 330gr .388 homemade hand swedge bullet , with a stock trigger and a 1x6 scope are way too much fun to control myself i guess . Mighty Whitey (its name) just ROCKS with that load !!! Thought i had another box made up actually ...oh well !!! Thank you for the technology lesson on big lead and blackhorn !!!! Gm54--120 contributed much as well . This kind of know how isnt easy to find . Great job guys !!!!

 

[knightnut2000]

Wow Busta you know I believe I seen some were that Knight use to send a small section of barrel with the rifle's so you could do just that , PRE rifle your lead bullets but I could be mistaking about that too. I got ahold of Dan @ Bullshop and I think I'm going to try the 440gr UC shorts in a .504 as my boar is .502.5 with a Veggie wads like you suggested to me. I do have a question CAN I HAVE your little toe because you carry more knowledge in it about this stuff than I'll ever learn LOL

 

[GM54-120]

Never shot his 50s but his 45s shoot great when sized just a tiny bit over lands with BH209. Ive gone .001 and .002 over lands without any QLA in my Knights. Both load plenty easy without a short starter. Good plug and tight veggie wad has gone boom every time. I use 2 wads when hunting just to be on the safe side.

 

[Sideshow]

Never shot his 50s but his 45s shoot great when sized just a tiny bit over lands with BH209. Ive gone .001 and .002 over without any QLA in my Knights. Both load plenty easy without a short starter. Good plug and tight veggie wad has gone boom every time. I use 2 wads when hunting just to be on the safe side.

Im gonna have to see what he offers for my 410 to duplicate what youre doing with blackhorn and a 400+ gr conical . Im just about out of time though here in Michigan . The deer season starts on tbe 15th . I fooled around and ended up wasteing ALL my sabot rounds on paper . That was REALLY STUPID !!! I'll salvage my season but not at all how i wanted . The education that you and Busta provided was WONDERFUL to say the least!!!!!!! Thank You , just doesnt quite cover it !!!!! Blackhorn with big lead is gonna be great !!! Thanks again !!!!

 

[Busta]

Sounds like a winner to me. You can usually get them bullets fully started in your bore with just your fingers and thumb. Try it with the breech plug removed first, so you know what you're dealing with.

I would start with 70 grains of BH209 by VOLUME, then 75 grV; then 80 grV. You should find something in that range that works very well, or you could tweek them a couple grains by Volume, to really find the sweet spot. 80 grains by VOLUME under a 440 grain (or 415 grain, or 420 grain, or 430 grain) lead conical in a .50 cal 1:28 twist is enough to kill a pissed off rut raged Bull Elk in quick fashion, and any whitetail that roams the Earth.

Just make sure you have a Blackhorn 209 compatible breech plug, a good 209 primer, and a veggie wad or two.

I like the slightly over bore bullets for hunting, especially while navigating around in the Rockies looking for Elk. Gives you a great sense of security, knowing that your bullet is going to stay parked on your charge, and not migrating away from it.

 

[Sideshow]

Sounds like a winner to me. You can usually get them bullets fully started in your bore with just your fingers and thumb. Try it with the breech plug removed first, so you know what you're dealing with.

I would start with 70 grains of BH209 by VOLUME, then 75 grV; then 80 grV. You should find something in that range that works very well, it you could tweek them a couple grains by Volume, b to really find the sweet spot. 80 grains by VOLUME under a 440 grain lead conical is enough to kill a pissed off rut raged Bull Elk in quick fashion, and any whitetail that roams the Earth.

I will try it . I have so many honey-- do's backed up with my sabot development taking first priority it isnt funny !!! Lol !!! If i keep this up headlines are gonna read , "Mad scientist killed by Madder Wife" lol !!!! No sense of humor left in her right now !!!! She has been really patient actually . Between rifle and mz season will be when i go for it working on big lead . Gotta keep momma happy -- for now . Good luck this year and thanks again !!!