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i have attached a link to a video a gentleman posted that covers so many of the points I am talking about. Make your own decision on what is and is not acceptable to you.
I watched the video. He made a some good points.
My first Flintlock, and the only one I hunted with, is a T/C "Renegade." The only issues I had with hang fires and misfires, were my own fault. I didn't understand it at the time, the vent liner and/or flash channel will gunk up.

When I first started shooting the Renegade, I would shoot for hours and not swab the barrel until I absolutely had to, nor did I clean the vent hole. I just didn't know. I had to take the barrel off of the stock and remove the vent liner at the range, to find this out.

That said, I never had an issue in the field. My Renegade took down quite a few deer; Both in rifle and muzzleloader seasons.

I bought the renegade in 1983 and never looked back. If I had a lock which caused problems, I may have given up on muzzleloaders altogether. Even at the range, there was no one to around to explain things to me. I had to learn it all on my own. If someone told me I had to balance my springs and polish the lock, for the lock to work correctly, I would have tossed the rifle and today, muzzleloading would not be in my life.
 
I watched the video. He made a some good points.
My first Flintlock, and the only one I hunted with, is a T/C "Renegade." The only issues I had with hang fires and misfires, were my own fault. I didn't understand it at the time, the vent liner and/or flash channel will gunk up.

When I first started shooting the Renegade, I would shoot for hours and not swab the barrel until I absolutely had to, nor did I clean the vent hole. I just didn't know. I had to take the barrel off of the stock and remove the vent liner at the range, to find this out.

That said, I never had an issue in the field. My Renegade took down quite a few deer; Both in rifle and muzzleloader seasons.

I bought the renegade in 1983 and never looked back. If I had a lock which caused problems, I may have given up on muzzleloaders altogether. Even at the range, there was no one to around to explain things to me. I had to learn it all on my own. If someone told me I had to balance my springs and polish the lock, for the lock to work correctly, I would have tossed the rifle and today, muzzleloading would not be in my life.
TC's are a different animal than most of the imports, that is why they still command a premium, the lock geometry is quite good. I am glad you stuck with it, it is a wonderful and enjoyable past time. I had the benefit of the combined knowledge of many people when I was young. A good Flintlock is a thing of beauty and mystique, a functional art form and a reliable tool all in one. Keep your powder dry and your top knot where it belongs.
 
Regrettably no on the videos. Tuning a lock is a bit of an art form. The best info on this is from Peter Alexander in the book "The Gunsmiths Of Greenville County" On production import locks the biggest issue is the Frizzen Spring being way too strong. A quick way to check a lock is remove the frizzen spring, charge the pan and fire the weapon if the lock sparks as it should and ignites the prime you are most likely ok. If it does not you have bigger lock issues. The only purpose of the frizzen spring is to keep it from opening with the muzzle towards the ground. Below is an excerpt from our sister site Muzzleloaders:
There is also a lot of good information out on the American Long Rifles forum.

This was a reply to another member asking a similar question, not my reply..

Not being snarky but that is why I said there are tomes written on this subject..

Since you are new to the forum, you need to explore what is already here. Go up to the top of the Index page to this forum, and look for a box marked, " Member Resources". Then scroll down to a thread marked "Articles, Charts, and Links". There are wonderful pieces of useful information found there. Review it. Among the articles is one on Shooting and Tuning Flintlocks. It will give you some information on what you want t know.

Tuning locks involves " Reverse Engineering". That is, you begin where you want to go, and go back wards, one step at a time from there. anything that hinders the final goal( quick ignition of the main charge) needs to be "Fixed".

Percussion locks have 2 springs; flintlocks have 3. Each spring provides energy to perform separate functions from the other(s). To tune the lock, you remove all the springs, and then the parts, and begin with the lock plate. Most plates ARE soft. Their thickness, and the tension of the mainspring on the tumbler actually will determine if case hardening the lock plate should be done.

The plate must be Flat along the inside, so that all the internal parts attached to it can move freely. I test the parts manually, to check clearance, and properly angled points of contact, BEFORE I put those parts' spring back in the lock.

The order I work on parts after checking the lockplate is:

1. The frizzen, and its spring;

2. The mainspring and the tumbler( along with the tumbler bridle, and fly, if present.)

3. The sear bar, and its spring.

The logic of my madness? Everything in a lock leads up to that flint striking the frizzen properly to produce sparks, and getting them down in the flash pan as quickly as possible.

If the frizzen binds, or is slow to open, we fail. The result is inconsistent ignition, at best, short flint life, and lack of shooter confidence in his gun. All can cause a missed shot.

So, I work on the frizzen and its spring FIRST. Since these items are on the outside of the lock plate, they are also the easiest to observe in operation on the gun.

The rotation of that hammer( cock) is all important, in a flintlock, so the hammer, tumbler, and mainspring become the next most important items to work on. Most locks have a bridle to support the tumbler, and most tumblers today are designed to be used with a double set trigger. That then requires a " Fly" installed on the tumbler to allow the sear to slide over the half cock notch when the gun is fired.

The tumbler has to rotate as smooth as glass in the lock plate hole. check this manual, without the mainspring attached to the tumbler. Later when you are checking, and polishing the contact surfaces between the hook of the mainspring and the horn of the tumbler( if the tumbler is designed this old-fashioned style) You will want to examine how squared the nose of the hook is to the horn, so that the spring is not putting TORQUE on the tumbler and creating binding and wear to the tumbler and the hole in the lock plate. I have examined locks where the nose of the hook on the lower arm of the mainspring is so out-of-square that the mainspring actually will slide off the horn unless held in place by the wood in the lock mortise!

Contact points of the springs, and the parts they move must be polished to a glass smooth surface to get the least friction, and the best mechanical performance of both the springs, and the moving parts.

The small sear spring has the least tension, moves the least, and therefore usually requires the least amount of work to bring it up to best performance. Its simple job is to push down on the sear bar, so that the sear goes back to its "unfired" position, awaiting for the hammer to be re-cocked. In some actions, the sear spring also has to move the trigger back to its "rest" position. Polishing the nose of the sear spring, and the contact surface on the sear so that the parts move without any hesitation- smooth as glass- will give you the best working performance.

Once you get the lock all polished, oiled, and put back together, you can move on to design issues, such as how tall the cock is, where the flint strikes the frizzen( Angle of impact), where the flint edge is located during its cycle when the frizzen opens( or not), TH location, size of TH, How much powder to use in the flash pan, and then the proper techniques for loading your gun to maximize fast ignition.

Many of the foreign made locks are being produced by people who just copy some lock they see in a museum, without knowing if its a good lock or not. They think the frizzen spring's job is to hold the frizzen closed, so that the flint bites deeply into the face of the frizzen to Gouge out metal. They are wrong. One of the oldest "Tests" of a good lock is to leave the frizzen spring out of the lock, and test fire the gun. If its tuned properly, the gun fires quickly and surely everytime you load it, and the flash pan, cock and pull the trigger.

The ONLY JOB a frizzen spring was ever intended to do was keep the frizzen CLOSED when the gun was carried muzzle down.

Man of the modern locks have coil springs and struts, use bar and stirrup connections to join the mainspring to the tumbler. These lock require different approaches to tuning, but all the directions on taking the parts down from the lock plate apply, and polishing them, are the same. Testing them manually is also the same.

Most of the coil springs are "over-engineered", and need to have coils clipped off of them to prevent stacking, and to stop the "rattle and tickle" these heavy springs deliver to the entire gun. Because of the bar and stirrups connection the coil spring strut to the tumbler, you are limited to what can be done to improve the speed of rotation of the tumbler in these locks. Advanced tuning of these kinds of lock involves making a new tumbler and changing the location of the half-cock, and full-cock notches to allow a shorter, faster rotation. For many target shooters, the half cock may become the full-cock notch, and no half cock notch will be provided.

I mention these anomalies simply to alert you to the fact that NOT ALL locks are made alike. The same REVERSE ENGINEERING principles will work in analyzing what needs to be "Fixed" on any lock to make its parts move more smoothly, and therefore faster, however. Care and maintenance thereafter determines how well a tuned lock continues to perform. :shocked2: :hmm: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:


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I feel like I just attended a graduate seminar...such a tremendous wealth of knowledge and talent here..
Do have any experience and or knowledge regards Chiappa manufacturing a repro of a Sharp's style rifle sold through Taylor's and Company.
 
I feel like I just attended a graduate seminar...such a tremendous wealth of knowledge and talent here..
Do have any experience and or knowledge regards Chiappa manufacturing a repro of a Sharp's style rifle sold through Taylor's and Company.
I have no personal experience with Chiappa Sharps, I Can speak to the Pedersoli Sharps and Shilo which I highly recommend. If you are just getting into BPCR shop around for a good used Pedersoli or Shilo. If you are a current handloader, everything you know about loading smokeless is mute other than say setting up a press. My first Sharps was a Pedersoli in 45-70 which I still have, and looking at the log book it has 7300 rounds through it, in that time I have broken 1 firing pin, it has a tapered bore which is beautiful for paper-patched bullets. I would highly recommend you start with a 45-70, much easier to get to shoot and less costly. If the bug bites you and it will, save your pennies and get a Shilo built to your specs, they are not cheap you are looking at 3K or so and around a 2 year wait (100% American made). The good thing is that you can save or make payments while you are in queue. I am not trying to steer you one way or another.

https://shilohrifle.com/about-our-company/
Hope this helps.
 
I have no personal experience with Chiappa Sharps, I Can speak to the Pedersoli Sharps and Shilo which I highly recommend. If you are just getting into BPCR shop around for a good used Pedersoli or Shilo. If you are a current handloader, everything you know about loading smokeless is mute other than say setting up a press. My first Sharps was a Pedersoli in 45-70 which I still have, and looking at the log book it has 7300 rounds through it, in that time I have broken 1 firing pin, it has a tapered bore which is beautiful for paper-patched bullets. I would highly recommend you start with a 45-70, much easier to get to shoot and less costly. If the bug bites you and it will, save your pennies and get a Shilo built to your specs, they are not cheap you are looking at 3K or so and around a 2 year wait (100% American made). The good thing is that you can save or make payments while you are in queue. I am not trying to steer you one way or another.

https://shilohrifle.com/about-our-company/
Hope this helps.
Boy i have/had no interest in a Sharps but that def got my attention!
 
Sure has been some great info posted here lately. I for one will never buy another Pedersoli Flintlock with the small lock on it like the one on the Scout. Its the pits & all it has done for me is turn me off to Pedersoli made ML's. Ya know a $718 kit is not cheap, like those $300-$350 Traditions kits. The Scout should have had a very good working flint Lock made for it
I shoot a .50 Pedersoli Scout, and it sparks great, small lock yes, uses pistol flints, but mine is light, handy, and goes bang! Every time. I do use a strip of sheet lead instead of leather to hold the flint, made all the difference in consistency!
 

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guess you never been to Friendship
I’m NOT the one with low expectations… my personal experience tells me what I can expect from my self and my guns and that ain’t it but have you perused any of the threads on the sister forum? A whole cadre of shooters are pleased with pie plate groups at 75 yards.

BTW, shooters on the line at friendship comprise a very small subset of the front loading publi, which is itself a very small subset of the shooting public and the vast majority of those folks have no idea how accurate and reliable the technology is or can be.
 
I shoot a .50 Pedersoli Scout, and it sparks great, small lock yes, uses pistol flints, but mine is light, handy, and goes bang! Every time. I do use a strip of sheet lead instead of leather to hold the flint, made all the difference in consistency!
I also use the lead around the flint. Mine is a dog, it is what it is. I have reached the point with it that i have filed/sanded n polished the springs n such. Weather has been so bad i can't get to shoot specially in winds above 15 mph we seem to have for weeks on end in the Winter. No use fooling with the Warranty, i called will be 8 months before they can rework it, plus i have to pay for shipping both ways. Very good lesson i got in buying any foreign made ML.
 
I shoot a .50 Pedersoli Scout, and it sparks great, small lock yes, uses pistol flints, but mine is light, handy, and goes bang! Every time. I do use a strip of sheet lead instead of leather to hold the flint, made all the difference in consistency!
I don't mean to make light of your rifle n success with the Scout. I am in the Mully Grubs about mine cause i wanted it to be like yours n be user friendly. I was at the shooting range had several pan flashes, broken flints n so on. So i think some of it was my error because i did not know it had a Patent breech n i clean bore after each shot.
 
I’m NOT the one with low expectations… my personal experience tells me what I can expect from my self and my guns and that ain’t it but have you perused any of the threads on the sister forum? A whole cadre of shooters are pleased with pie plate groups at 75 yards.

BTW, shooters on the line at friendship comprise a very small subset of the front loading publi, which is itself a very small subset of the shooting public and the vast majority of those folks have no idea how accurate and reliable the technology is or can be.
I don't quite get what you are saying but there are not many shooters in the country than the ones shooting Round ball , bench or offhand, with the knowledge in the country , small percentage or not
 
I have that gun also, and it was the kit, what a great gun. Did you have an issue with the left lock not working. Mine trigger didn’t reach the sear till I put some rubber tubing on sear.
Mine was flawless out of the box. I pulled everything apart and gave it a nice polishing, and it was much more "smooth" feeling, but it worked just fine at first, other than some wood getting in the way of the hammer.
 
I feel like I just attended a graduate seminar...such a tremendous wealth of knowledge and talent here..
Do have any experience and or knowledge regards Chiappa manufacturing a repro of a Sharp's style rifle sold through Taylor's and Company.
Some of those off brand Italian Sharps repro's had/have problems with the lock parts not being properly hardened. Broken/weak mainsprings, rounded sears, rounded tumbler notches, broken firing pins. X
 
I have two Pedersoli Gibbs rifles and had one Navy Arms imported Gibbs, a Spanish rifle. The Spanish gun was in some details a bit better rifle, had an excellent trigger, and was very accurate, except that the foresight wasn’t able to accept aftermarket inserts and it was built for the shorter ranges. 8.5 pounds or so and not very comfortable with the heavy charges for long range shooting. Pedersoli makes the best factory produced sidelocks currently offered.
 
The Platinum lined nipple arrived from BACO today. I was using the OEM steel nipple. I called BACO to make sure it would fit the Gibbs. The thread size is the same as T/C and I asked if it would work in a Renegade. He told me it would; It won't. The nipple is too long. T/C uses a short 1/4-28 nipple.

Pedersoli makes a Beryllium nipple for the Gibbs and their other target rifles. Do you know anything about them? What is the difference between the Beryllium & the Platinum?
View attachment 30805I
It works in both my Renegades and the one for (long700 yd range) hasa rice 1-17twist , but the stock 1-48 works as well . Dave the owner told me of his personal experience and said it might never wear out as he as used his thousands (he thinks) and still shows no wear .Perhaps the pedersoli is different ,I know my cost was
$60.00 each but now that I think it was Platinum . And my Renegade barrels I hunt with all wear
Mag spark 1/4 -28 also/Ed
 
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It works in both my Renegades and the one for (long700 yd range) hasa rice 1-17twist , but the stock 1-48 works as well . Dave the owner told me of his personal experience and said it might never wear out as he as used his thousands (he thinks) and still shows no wear .Perhaps the pedersoli is different ,I know my cost was
$60.00 each but now that I think it was Platinum .
I never thought of the Rice barrels using a 1/4-28 thread. My Rice .50 1:24 barrel arrived the other day. I had ordered it Months ago. Well before I bought the Gibbs. I have two platinum nipples. I'll use one on the Rice and the other on my Gibbs.
 
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