CVA Paramount Update

[GM54-120]

Another thought

If several of you guys can get a accurate land measurement and they are all really close to say...4515 or whatever.....Fury Custom Bullets might be interested in making a ready to shoot bullet. Size them a little under and then he knurls them up a couple 1000ths. So say a .451 bullet knurled up to no more than .453 In theory that should shoot and not get stuck. Ive found that combination of undersizing and then knurled over to be great in my 45s. Its just a huge pain without a knurling tool and those are REALLY expensive for the Corbon.

The Fury 50cal full bore bullet is around $80/50. I would imagine a 45cal would be about the same and its a bonded bullet. About .295 BC for the Star Tip II 45cal 300gr.
https://www.furycustombullets.com/webapp/p/208/muzzle-loader

Imagine this in a 45cal ready to shoot for $80/50

 

[ENCORE50A]

............... this was with weighed 140 grain BH and CVA's 280 bullet...…

I'm assuming when you say 140grs above, you didn't mean 140grs by actual weight, but weight equal to 140grs volume?

 

[Scott Strong]

Probably volume. Anything over about 150gr by volume is a total waste. You wont be able to burn it all even in a 28" barrel.

That’s what I was thinking, 140 by weight would either not fully burn out or it would blow up.

 

[lptroll]

You are shooting 140 grain by weight BH 209?

Probably volume. Anything over about 150gr by volume is a total waste. You wont be able to burn it all even in a 28" barrel.

sorry, 105 weight, 140 volume, oops, would have to man up to shoot 140 weight!!

 

[Busta]

sorry, 105 weight, 140 volume, oops, would have to man up to shoot 140 weight!!

Life was so simple when we didn't have to qualify our Black Powder and Black Powder Substitute loads for a muzzleloader. Everyone knew they were by VOLUME!

The ones that chose to convert them to WEIGHT, kept that to themselves and posted the standard VOLUME equivalents. Not any more!

 

[HC]

It sure would be nice if everyone used volume measure. It has caused many mistakes in posts that have to be corrected.

 

[Busta]

It sure would be nice if everyone used volume measure. It has caused many mistakes in posts that have to be corrected.

Unfortunately the SAFETY Ship has sailed, and we are forever going to have to qualify ALL loads.

VOLUMETRIC measure is the BP and BP Substitute industry standard, however since the charges by WEIGHT have been posted, ALL charges need to be qualified.

Since VOLUME measurements are the higher number, we now have no choice. The ones posting charges by WEIGHT have removed that choice, FOREVER!

The new guys starting out and the lurkers that read these posts may not know that 120 grains by VOLUME is equivalent to 84 grains by WEIGHT, and are the maximum loads by Western Powder. If someone now posts that they are shooting 120 grains, doesn't qualify by VOLUME, someone else could misinterpret that as a WEIGHT charge, and overload their standard production rifle. Some rifles are even limited to 100 grains by VOLUME, which would only be 70 grains by WEIGHT.

Obviously the Paramount has a higher approved safe maximum load limit, approved by both CVA and Western Powders. These loads are not approved for other production muzzleloaders, however.

Case in point, as of right now this is who is on this forum as of 6:27 PM EDT.

"Members Online Now
Busta, ShawnT, Chris W., jbem777, ENCORE50A, Rodeo, lancer, BuckDoeHunter
Total: 94 (members: 10, guests: 73, robots: 11)"

It's generally not the members here that we have to worry about, unless they are fairly new, but we need to be concerned with all who read here at this forum.

10 members, 73 guests, and 11 robots. Those numbers all increase later in the evening. Hopefully they read this, and are able to figure this out.

SAFETY First, Last, and ALWAYS! ALWAYS!!!

 

[45-70]

Life was so simple when we didn't have to qualify our Black Powder and Black Powder Substitute loads for a muzzleloader. Everyone knew they were by VOLUME!

The ones that chose to convert them to WEIGHT, kept that to themselves and posted the standard VOLUME equivalents. Not any more!

I have always shot or measured charges by weight, black or sub black
i understand your concern

 

[lptroll]

Understand the confusion. As I typed my statement about weighed 140 grain, I had the thought how do I present this so no confusion. My thought was "they will know what I mean". Obviously I was wrong. I will in the future always clarify weight vs volume.

 

[lptroll]

I'm shooting 100 grains of bh209 with all kinds of bullets. ELR and another yellow powerbelt 225 grain and hornady sst sabots. At 100 yards I'm hitting some great groups with all. My barrel has to be a bit fouled though. With a clean barrel it shoots low and left. As soon as I get a shot or two through it's right in the center. My last shot of the day.

Question, shooting the CVA recommended 280 grain bullet, my effort level to push the bullet down the barrel was smooth, could push bullet down rather easily with one hand. groups were touching each other at 100 yards. I guess it is two questions, what is paramount users experience when loading the CVA bullet, hard push, smooth push, groupings at 100 yards. and above post using different bullet/sabot combos, what did you experience as far as loading different combos as far as effort to push bullet down barrel to how the groups were affected. I know, long question!

 

[Scott Strong]

Question, shooting the CVA recommended 280 grain bullet, my effort level to push the bullet down the barrel was smooth, could push bullet down rather easily with one hand. groups were touching each other at 100 yards. I guess it is two questions, what is paramount users experience when loading the CVA bullet, hard push, smooth push, groupings at 100 yards. and above post using different bullet/sabot combos, what did you experience as far as loading different combos as far as effort to push bullet down barrel to how the groups were affected. I know, long question!

The ELR pushes down easy, the ticket to getting the best groups is consistency, pushing the same each time. Anytime you introduce a sabot into the picture it will be much harder to push down, you have friction the entire surface area of that sabot. My Paramount groups better than a lot of off the shelf centerfire rifles... I have been truly amazed at its performance.



edit;

other than the gasses passing the variflame, that too will create a variance in pressure and has the ability to effect performance. At least that shall be fixed very soon.

 

[lptroll]

thanx for the reply, would like to stay with 105/140 load, but would like to tame the recoil a little more than a little. have little experience with muzzlebrake except for my Browning 300 mag w/boss which is a pleasure to shoot. Don't know how much a muzzlebrake will reduce performance/recoil in my Paramount. Thought?

 

[antman]

ELR bullets push easy as does other powerbelt I have used. Agree sabots are harder pushing. I've been sticking with 100 grains by volume bh209 as I'm at 100 yards or less. That would probably be my hunting situation as well although longer shots could happen. I'd like to find a way to do some distance shooting, maybe when I go outer island.

 

[ENCORE50A]

thanx for the reply, would like to stay with 105/140 load, but would like to tame the recoil a little more than a little. have little experience with muzzlebrake except for my Browning 300 mag w/boss which is a pleasure to shoot. Don't know how much a muzzlebrake will reduce performance/recoil in my Paramount. Thought?

A brake won't affect the performance and all the brakes I've used helped with the extreme recoil of my Ultimate (radial) and also now with BH and SML (tactical).
Since shooting the LR Customs T-RexCSTM brake, any future rifle that needed a brake would get the same.
I've posted a video in other posts here where a friend is shooting the same brake, with the same charge you've been shooting. Believe me, or rather him, brakes work on heavy recoiling rifles.
There is NO weight on his sled. He loves watching the bullet impact

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

A brake will make a HUGE difference . I am on my way back from a hunting trip to Wyoming . Prior to this trip I sighted in a custom Bestill Creations .40 Omega . My Omega weighs 11lbs 10 oz ready to shoot . I was shooting a 312 grain Pittman Aeromax bullet with 95 grains of Blackhorn 209 ( lot 27)by WEIGHT my velocity was 2335 FPS . This gun was not pleasant to shoot ! I have the Omega threaded for a custom brake . I decided to make a shot with the brake . WOW !!! I have not shot a brake in quite some time with my Blackhorn guns . ( this is because Friendship no longer allows brakes) I could not believe how much the brake tamed my .40 Omega . These .40s create much more pressure which translates into recoil . I can guarantee a good brake will reduce felt recoil by a minimum of 40 percent . That is conservative number I would honestly say it’s more like 50 percent .

I should have my Paramount by the time I get home . The ignition system has already been fixed . From what I have read I wish I would of had the gun threaded for a brake . I will do some testing as soon as I have time . Brakes are great for reducing recoil but there are some drawbacks. Guides and other hunters hate brakes even the hunter shooting needs to wear hearing protection while making a shot. Loading a muzzleloader with a brake requires either a load through funnel or you have to remove the brake after each shot . They can be somewhat of a pain but they definitely reduce recoil !

 

[SuperKirby]

Where and what did you hunt in WY?

 

[lptroll]

A brake will make a HUGE difference . I am on my way back from a hunting trip to Wyoming . Prior to this trip I sighted in a custom Bestill Creations .40 Omega . My Omega weighs 11lbs 10 oz ready to shoot . I was shooting a 312 grain Pittman Aeromax bullet with 95 grains of Blackhorn 209 ( lot 27)by WEIGHT my velocity was 2335 FPS . This gun was not pleasant to shoot ! I have the Omega threaded for a custom brake . I decided to make a shot with the brake . WOW !!! I have not shot a brake in quite some time with my Blackhorn guns . ( this is because Friendship no longer allows brakes) I could not believe how much the brake tamed my .40 Omega . These .40s create much more pressure which translates into recoil . I can guarantee a good brake will reduce felt recoil by a minimum of 40 percent . That is conservative number I would honestly say it’s more like 50 percent .

I should have my Paramount by the time I get home . The ignition system has already been fixed . From what I have read I wish I would of had the gun threaded for a brake . I will do some testing as soon as I have time . Brakes are great for reducing recoil but there are some drawbacks. Guides and other hunters hate brakes even the hunter shooting needs to wear hearing protection while making a shot. Loading a muzzleloader with a brake requires either a load through funnel or you have to remove the brake after each shot . They can be somewhat of a pain but they definitely reduce recoil !

What are thoughts on getting ports cut into existing barrel vs threading muzzlebrake add on

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

I was in Gillette Wyoming hunting on a private ranch for mule deer and antelope. Could of shot both but was after a trophy mule deer . Saw plenty of animals but no shooters . Had a great time . My buddy tagged out which was the real reason I went . My buddy has had a very tuff year loosing his son . I wanted Steve to try and forget things for a couple of days . Our trip was a success.

Myself I would not port the barrel . I do not think porting a barrel is all that effective reducing recoil . Also I want to be able to remove the brake . In some situations like hunting out of a hut or hunting with someone that does not like a brake I want to be able to remove the brake and install a thread protector . Just remember the gun will need to be sighted in with and without a brake . Point of impact will change .

 

[1HOLEADDICT]

Just shot mine for the first time today. I shot the recommended load of 140 by volume / 98grains by weight. I gotta say that it will pack shots on top of each other at 100 yards!!

No leakage issue as of yet.

Sighted in 3" high at 100 yards as the book states. This is supposed to be a 200 yard zero. I moved over to 200 yards and every shot fell 3" low of the bull. I did not chrono loads yet but will my next range trip.

Should i be seeing 6" of drop at 200 yards?

I have a feeling they are advertising off a false BC of the ELR. From all the posts im reading its true BC is .330.

Anyone else have any experience with the Paramount??

 

[Busta]

Just shot mine for the first time today. I shot the recommended load of 140 by volume / 98grains by weight. I gotta say that it will pack shots on top of each other at 100 yards!!

No leakage issue as of yet.

Sighted in 3" high at 100 yards as the book states. This is supposed to be a 200 yard zero. I moved over to 200 yards and every shot fell 3" low of the bull. I did not chrono loads yet but will my next range trip.

Should i be seeing 6" of drop at 200 yards?

I have a feeling they are advertising off a false BC of the ELR. From all the posts im reading its true BC is .330.

Anyone else have any experience with the Paramount??

Yeah, they originally had some crazy BC of something like .450ish. We all were very sceptical of that, and knew it would be in the .300's. They found out later that it was .330-335ish, real world.

It has been discussed here from the beginning, and again later. Not sure if it was in this particular thread though.