CVA's New 2019 .45 Caliber Rifling Twist Rate Revealed!

[Busta]

It was under our noses for over two weeks now. 1:22 is the magic number.

This is the first buck shot with the new 2019 CVA Accura V2 LR .45 caliber 1:22 twist and the new .45 Caliber Paramount ELR PowerBelt bullet in Illinois on November 16, 2018.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... %2As%2As-R

 

[chaded]

Definitely interested, don’t know how I feel about a 30” barrel though. I will have to go shoulder one and see how it handles.

 

[Busta]

I will probably wait until they get smart enough to release it in the Accura MR with a 25"-26" barrel.

The Paramount has a 26" barrel, but it also has a bolt action receiver that adds length.

 

[GM54-120]

I find it interesting they chose a 1-22. My Pacnor is a 1-22 and that is what RBinAR (Rick Bibby RIP) recommended way back in 2005-2006 on this forum. He and Steve White? more or less pioneered the Savage 45cal conversions after contacting Pacnor. Later they also got McGowen (Savage Barrels) to produce a less expensive 45 barrel which was also a 1-22. Im not positive but Bill Ball is or at least was recommending a 1-22 for his conversions.

What i found most amusing is that Randy W claimed right here (before getting banned) that a 1-22 was too fast for sabots. He didnt like the 45s at all from what i remember. Well, Illinois does not allow 45cal sabot loads so that might have impacted his opinion. 44cal minimum there.

Good old Cecil made the same crazy claim about it being too fast. Yet here we are back to 2006 and fast twist 45s that can shoot incredibly well even with sabots.

I seem to remember an old post by 1shot1kill (Bill Ball) referring to his early work back in 1992ish. One of his early attempts was a 45 although i cant remember the twist. I think he used a McGowen on a Mark X action. It was on Dougs board and so much of the stuff there was archived making searching a pain.

 

[Underclocked]

This may have "almost" the barrel I've been asking them to make for a long time.

 

[Busta]

This may have "almost" the barrel I've been asking them to make for a long time.

Hey Rich, glad you stopped in. Long time, no see/hear.

This is going to be a game changer for sure. Maybe they'll make a RT version.

Stick around, and don't be a stranger!

These ain't yer Daddy's 1971 CVA's anymore! Bergara USA is taking things to whole nuther level.

 

[GM54-120]

Edited out some of the SML content. RB had some great posts on the topic.

Over a period of time I?ve heard a lot about the selection of a barrel twist for a muzzle loading rifle. The debate has been fueled by articles in magazines and web pages that offer one solution or another to the twist equation.

The most commonly heard twist theory says that too tight a twist was a common error in early in-line muzzle loaders and has tried to rein things back to the point of saying that optimum accuracy will not be had unless the barrel twist is less than 1 in 26 inches.

One may ask, why is twist an issue in the first place? I don?t think it really is, however it can surly be on a great many shooter?s minds because what might happen in different firearms is a mystery. What I mean by that is you can theorize all you wish but the only way to know for sure is to shoot. It has been only recently that I could compare two twists in the same caliber together.

The two twists I?ve used are 1 in 28 and 1 in 22 inches. To get started I also enlisted the help of Dave Daub. Dave has a similar set of rifles and barrel twists as I have he is also able to shoot often and at ranges to 300 yards. Using our combined results over the last 10 months I think it s safe to conclude it would be very difficult to ascribe any accuracy advantage to a slower twist.

In the tests ran so far (in 45 caliber) the 1 in 22 barrel is more accurate, however since the sample size is only two rifles for each twist that could be seen as having two more accurate rifles rather than an advantage. What is certain is the faster twist has very little if any noticeable effect of accuracy when fired from a smokeless rifle. When Dave and I both can produce near 1 MOA accuracy at 300 yards with sporting rifles accuracy is without question. Most groups of three averaged 1.2 to 1.3 MOA when firing sabots. I?ve seen greater accuracy (but at this point only at 200 yards) when shooting sabot-less projectiles.

I still say if CVA really wants to offer something "new" it needs to be a MR nitride 45cal fast twist or even a drop in replacement 45 for existing MR 50s?

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

Honestly i think a 1-22 twist would fit the majority of hunters . Most average hunters shoot 250 to 300 grain max bullets . Maybe even 200 to 250 grain bullets. I am talking about the mass majority of hunters . 1-22 should handle that weight of bullets fairly well.

Personally if i was to build a long range rifle i would want a little faster twist .

 

[GM54-120]

45cal 1-22 will shoot a huge variety of bullets that would interest hunters who want a bit more range without the additional recoil. Mine will stack 200gr sabot loads better than i can shoot and plenty of sabotless loads too. Bullets like the new Fury 40cal 250gr or Pittman 225gr would probably be really good for those that dont want to mess with sabotless.

 

[Underclocked]

Thanks, Busta. I am not quite sure my post above made any sense but hopefully it can be deciphered.

As to "I still say if CVA really wants to offer something "new" it needs to be a MR nitride 45cal fast twist or even a drop in replacement 45 for existing MR 50s?" This is basically what I've been asking for although I would expand it to add drop ins for the Apex as well as all relevant Accura models. Their abandoning the Apex isn't cool. I currently have both an Apex and an Accura MR (ss but not nitrided). Who knows, I might even start shooting some of these days.

 

[sabotloader]

Thanks, Busta. I am not quite sure my post above made any sense but hopefully it can be deciphered.

As to "I still say if CVA really wants to offer something "new" it needs to be a MR nitride 45cal fast twist or even a drop in replacement 45 for existing MR 50s?" This is basically what I've been asking for although I would expand it to add drop ins for the Apex as well as all relevant Accura models. Their abandoning the Apex isn't cool. I currently have both an Apex and an Accura MR (ss but not nitrided). Who knows, I might even start shooting some of these days.

It certainly has been awhile since I last seen you on here - but it is really great that you dropped back in - please don't be a stranger...

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

GM when did RB write that post and may i ask why he was banned ?

 

[52Bore]

Honestly i think a 1-22 twist would fit the majority of hunters . Most average hunters shoot 250 to 300 grain max bullets . Maybe even 200 to 250 grain bullets. I am talking about the mass majority of hunters . 1-22 should handle that weight of bullets fairly well.

Personally if i was to build a long range rifle i would want a little faster twist .

I agree Doug.
I have and have owned a few ML built in the mid-1800’s with twist from 1:18 to 1:24 in 45 cal. Even my 1:24 won many LR Silhouette matches at Friendship (to 500 yds) and won at Oak Ridge to 600yds. But, I finally gave up after years of shooting it at 1000 - I tried everything.
This CVA will do fine.
Didn’t think they’d copy Knight 1:20 (same as Whitworth in 1850’s).

 

[GM54-120]

GM when did RB write that post and may i ask why he was banned ?

RB wrote that in 2007. He was not banned. Randy Wakeman was banned from here. RB died several years ago. Seems like it was around very late 2010 or 2011?

If you would like to read more of his stuff here is his link. memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1795

His link on Dougs but it may not include some archived stuff from the old board. http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/user/46

 

[GM54-120]

Didn’t think they’d copy Knight 1:20 (same as Whitworth in 1850’s).

You should add T/C, Tradtions and MDM along with Knight. They all had 45cal 1-20 inlines with 209 ignition and "SUPER 45" load data in one form or another.

 

[edmehlig]

Thanks, Busta. I am not quite sure my post above made any sense but hopefully it can be deciphered.

As to "I still say if CVA really wants to offer something "new" it needs to be a MR nitride 45cal fast twist or even a drop in replacement 45 for existing MR 50s?" This is basically what I've been asking for although I would expand it to add drop ins for the Apex as well as all relevant Accura models. Their abandoning the Apex isn't cool. I currently have both an Apex and an Accura MR (ss but not nitrided). Who knows, I might even start shooting some of these days.

+1 on the MR in a 45 Cal. Rich, you haven't shot so long you may shoot your eye out!! Welcome Back!!!

 

[GM54-120]

Yeah, i would consider selling "something" to get my hands on a MR 45 fast twist. That would leave me with a fair amount left over for a nice scope. The Paramount would have be super nice and well under a grand for me to sell though. Not that it might not be worth it but i already have a pig of a 45cal bolt gun. Plus i know my pig shoots and shoots way faster.

 

[52Bore]

Didn’t think they’d copy Knight 1:20 (same as Whitworth in 1850’s).

You should add T/C, Tradtions and MDM along with Knight. They all had 45cal 1-20 inlines with 209 ignition and "SUPER 45" load data in one form or another.

Only if they knew how to load them to shoot accurately.
Knight only did so after attending Friendship - then they reintroduce them in 2015.

 

[52Bore]

Edited

 

[GM54-120]

Didn’t think they’d copy Knight 1:20 (same as Whitworth in 1850’s).

You should add T/C, Tradtions and MDM along with Knight. They all had 45cal 1-20 inlines with 209 ignition and "SUPER 45" load data in one form or another.

Only if they knew how to load them to shoot accurately.
Knight only did so after attending Friendship - then they reintroduce them in 2015.

Any chance you can dig up the info from the 2001 and 2002 Manufacturers matches? Knight won both those years shooting the Precision Rifle QT bullets. I just dont have any info on what they were shooting them in. Im assuming it was a 1-20 Super DISC and that is what Gordy thought they shot that year also.

PR has several bullets that should be good hunting choices in the new CVA fast twists too.