CVA's New 2019 .45 Caliber Rifling Twist Rate Revealed!

[sabotloader]

What can I say , Whitworth didn't have nothing on Doc!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I won't change my mind . No one didn't say the twist wouldn't work.

Sorry do have a question, how many years was Doc's rifles used?

in the Manufactures Matches

If I remember correctly - Doc White's team won 8 years in a row - then Knight

 

[long shot]

no that is not right . Knight won 6 in a Row but I was wondering if Doc's rifles were used in that time frame

 

[Busta]

Yeah the old SUPER 45 stuff was based around 3 pellet loads and a 155gr bullet for several companies. The claim was it was roughly equal to a 7mm-08 at the muzzle. Well you might get 2500fps but the results were more of a shotgun pattern than a group. The twist certainly isnt the problem because ive seen my Pacnor 1-22 shoot awesome groups with modern sabots at well over 2700fps.

Its a bit more challenging with BH209 but ive hit close to 2500fps without crazy high loads. They were over recommended max but completely safe in my Pacnor 45 416R barrel. 150gr by volume should break 2500fps with a 200gr sabot load. Really though you are better off going to one of the new heavier 40cals like the Fury 250 and stay closer to Westerns load data. 2100-2200fps should be possible with the 250 and close to current max recommended.

Lets see
.998 bullet length...i think that is correct for the 40-250
2150fps....should be no problem and plenty safe
1-22 twist
JBM says......Stability: 1.968 which is more than enough
Kwk says....1-26 is all that is needed.

What about the 225gr Accumax?
1.27" long
2200fps should be no problem

JMB says...Stability: 0.915 So that probably aint gunna happen unless the aluminum tip length is killing the numbers.
Kwk says you need at least a 1-21

Section density of a 250gr 40cal is sweet. .223 which is equal to a 50cal weighing 390gr or a 45 weighing about 318grs. Penetration should be excellent and the Fury is bonded. Sure you can gain more with sabotless $2+ a pop bullets and a sizing die but at $44/50 these have some stellar potential for a hunter.

Yeah, Cecil sure couldn't figure out it back then. Of course, neither could Knight, T/C, Traditions.

https://www.prbullet.com/s45.htm

https://www.prbullet.com/caribou.htm

By 2002-2003, all but Traditions and White scrapped the 1:20. Green Mountain actually cut the receivers off the DISC barrels and sold the barres for awhile. T/C and Knight were scrambling to warranty the 1:20 .45 cal barrels, that some were so pissed about. Some ended up taking .50 caliber barrels, and some got the 1:28 & 1:30 barrels later on.

It all boiled down to a piss poor marketing campaign, with the light 155 & 180 grain saboted .40 caliber XTP pistol bullets. Marketing SPEED over ACCURACY. Nobody but White had it all figured out, both with full bore conicals and saboted bullets.

The rest ate CROW!

 

[long shot]

so how many years did White Muzzle loaders compete in Manufactures matches

 

[52Bore]

That’s interesting - Doug and I both agree it will do fine.
Doc copied the makers of the mid-1800’s, I believe I read where he owned a few originals of the period - none of this is new to anyone who knows ML shooting history.

Just making sure I didn't mis-state something - yes, the above statements are correct. 45cal, Fast twist (1:20), lead conical.
All this fast twist stuff is nothing new - like I stated before, glad someone else (CVA this year) is making a new ML.
All is good.

 

[SCHUNTER]

No complaints what so ever with my .45 1/22 twist McGowan. Sabotless with BH209 out to 300 yards with 250 and 275 grain bullets. I think the CVA will be just fine.

 

[Idaholewis]

I Wonder if these Rifles will have the Guided Muzzle? (Their Version of QLA) I just Shot a CVA Wolf, I was none impressed, in Fact I would NOT Own one due to the Muzzle.

 

[Busta]

It's only 1/4" deep, not like T/C's 1" deep.

 

[1874sharpsshooter]

No complaints what so ever with my .45 1/22 twist McGowan. Sabotless with BH209 out to 300 yards with 250 and 275 grain bullets. I think the CVA will be just fine.

Opposite for me : Luke built me a Sml with McGowen 1:22 barrel. It shot good to a point but I sold it and went to 1:20 and 1:18 twists .much better twist for either long range or for heavy lead
Be plenty fine for hunting ranges though

 

[GM54-120]

The McGowens were not as uniform or as tight as the Pacnors. If you did get a loose Pacnor or if it was uneven they would replace it. Both were nearly all 1-22s with only a handful of exceptions. For years the Pacnor 1-22s ruled the MLII and Rem700ML conversion market. Ive seen tons of great shooting 1-22s over the years. Richard on Dougs would post weekly targets and loads. Mostly with Pacnor 45 1-22s until he switched to a Brux 45 1-20.

The big problem came in when trying to shoot the Harvester light blue (.454 loaded OD) in a .451+ McGowen. The sabot was just too loose for that bore. It was great in the majority of .450 Pacnor bores though. The MMP tan (.456 loaded OD) just wont handle the really hot loads most were shooting but did fine with milder loads for some people.

CVA is gunna run into the same issue if their 45 bores are .451 or larger. My old Accura 45 was in the .452 range which made it a real pain shooting hotter sabot loads. You will need .402 bullets to get them to shoot well. Dennis at Fury does offer a .401 and offers knurling on his 40s for a couple bucks extra.

 

[Underclocked]

Where are these new rifles/barrels available? Does anyone here have one?

 

[GM54-120]

Where are these new rifles/barrels available? Does anyone here have one?

Underclocked...check your PMs please

 

[Busta]

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/rifles/c ... liber.html

 

[long shot]

Really would like to see one of those tested at Friendship

 

[Busta]

Really would like to see one of those tested at Friendship

Not nearly as bad as I would like to see it. I could do it, but I have no patience for the political BS! uke:

 

[long shot]

You know I get sick about hearing about it the politics let it die , has nothing to do with the rifle or how it works. l

 

[Dougs136Schwartz]

No politics for myself i just show up and shoot . I would also like to see what the new CVAs can do .

 

[long shot]

:yeah:

No politics for myself i just show up and shoot . I would also like to see what the new CVAs can do .

 

[GM54-120]

Price is a tiny bit high but THEY listened and its the only thing out there in a break action platform. Well, excluding the Patriot for $900.

I simply have no interest in a 30" barrel break action that is probably gunna actually weigh in closer to 8lbs bare. Sure will be interesting to see the velocity it gets though. Im very curious how fast the new PB will be with 120grV of BH209. Should be a screamer.

 

[Busta]

You know I get sick about hearing about it the politics let it die , has nothing to do with the rifle or how it works. l

Just like Friendship or the NMLRA has nothing to do with the rifle, this thread, this forum, and 99.9999999% of the muzzleloading enthusiasts. I get sick of hearing about that!