Huntsman breech plug

[ported45]

Put one shot through it yesterday evening and the primer pocket is so big that fouling went everywhere, the primer bulged big time (measured in photo below), and the primer cup separated. Looks like the fouling leakage was caused by the separating primer and not blow-by between the primer cup and breech plug. Going to be calling MU today.

In addition to the primer pocket being too large in diameter, it looks like it is a tad too deep as well. There couldn't be more than 5 thousandths space between the primer flange and the plug when pushed into the primer pocket. Brand new #60 oring from MU got toasted on that one shot (in photo below next to a new one supplied by MU).

Plug dimensions:

Old MU Plug: primer pocket opening- 0.2470", bottom of tapered pocket walls- 0.2420", depth- 0.2870"

New MU Plug: primer pocket opening- 0.2650", bottom of tapered pocket walls- 0.2585", depth- 0.3120"

I talked to Bob at MU this morning and he requested that I email my pics to him. He says that he cuts the primer pockets himself.

He said that he had a supplier that was machining the plugs for him and the supplier quit machining the plugs. He said that he had only ordered about a 100 at a time and they didn't move very fast. Didn't sound like he was too eager to find a new supplier. Can't blame him...

 

[ported45]

Will update again when I hear back from Bob.

 

[sbuff]

I just found my original manual from when I bought my sidekick /heritage from 2004. Sure wish they still made them. I might have to break her out of the safe and dust her off this season

 

[ported45]

Did not hear back, so emailed again this morning.

Almost instant response to give him my mailing address again and he would get a replacement plug shipped out.

I will report back again when I have it in hand and primer pocket dimensions measured.

 

[sbuff]

Can't wait .... they sure are shooters

 

[ported45]

Replacement for defective plug received this morning. Dimensions are 0.005" larger in diameter top and bottom of the cylindrical section than the original MU plug I got 2 years ago, but much better than the one I got in June. I have the rifle loaded up and plan to take a shot to make sure that it doesn't leak after I finish mowing this afternoon. Hope that the primer can crush enough on the oring, because the raised section below the primer flange sticks up 0.035" more than the previous 2 plugs (which match to the hundredth). If it leaks from the bottom, the first thing I am going to do is file that down to match the other 2 plugs.

 

[ported45]

Does not leak from the bottom, but still getting minor leaking between primer cup and skirt at the breech (has to be because of the 0.005" over-bore of the pocket). Not all dirty like the previous plug and oring looks like it is still new instead of almost shredded.

Think I will just quit while I am somewhat ahead.

Maybe get me a PR plug to play with and see how it does.

 

[GM54-120]

What 209 are you using and have you tried NSI aka Nobels before? They are larger OD but long like a Win209

 

[ported45]

What 209 are you using and have you tried NSI aka Nobels before? They are larger OD but long like a Win209

Using the Win 209. Have never seen Nobel available anywhere I get reloading supplies around here.

 

[wmdbowman]

As far as an O ring you might try McMasters Carr. I use 2 different ones. They are both metric size, 1x4.5 made of Silicone and the other is 1x4.5 made of Viton. They can be purchased on line in small low cost quantities. They will take the pressure and the heat.

 

[wmdbowman]

a Fiocchi 209 primer is both longer and slightly bigger in Dia. Fiocchi # 616 They seal for me were a Winchester 209 will not depending on which gun I'm shooting.

 

[ported45]

Only primers available locally are Winchester and CCI. Anything else would have to be added to a mail order when I ordered a large amount of powder.

 

[ported45]

Anyone have a 7/8" Precision Rifles breech plug that is not being used that they would part with?

Really kind of hate to go to vent liners, but it seems the primer setup is better than MU.

This is for my Dad's Huntsman.

 

[GM54-120]

a Fiocchi 209 primer is both longer and slightly bigger in Dia. Fiocchi # 616 They seal for me were a Winchester 209 will not depending on which gun I'm shooting.

Hasnt been my experience at all. Fiocchi are shorter than a Win209 but are larger OD.

 

[wmdbowman]

It is a question of ones experience. Just measured the batch I have of both. The Fiocchi can average slightly shorter than the a W 209 with some Fiocchi being longer than the Winchester. The Fiocchi all averaged larger in diameter. Both are magnetic if that means anything! The Win. appears to have a nickel flashing on it and the Italia Fiocchi has what looks to be a cooper flashing.
Point being if you want a longer primer use the Fiocchi or not they both will work. I find the Fiocchi fits my CVA guns better than the Win.209. I use the W 209 in my Cooper for a better fit. All will leak under pressure without the use of a small O ring under the front of the primer when in the Breech Plug. Mute point for some shooters. Some may care about leakage others could give a hoot. What ever floats your boat.
Fiocchi is Italia, CVA is Spain . North Spain in a region that has been making guns for a century or more. I have seen some very high quality Shotguns while I was working in Spain as well as Italia. Hang in there pussycat keep your litter box clean.

 

[GM54-120]

My Fiocchi measure no more than .294. NSI/Nobel though are as long as Win209s. Both the NSI and Fiocchi have basically no taper to them. Nose OD is the same as if measured near the rim.

None of my primers leak but all my plugs are creating a slight primer crush except the NULA which does not seal the same way. I still never understood why people prefer LESS primer in the breach plug using a oring instead of setting head space right with MORE primer in the pocket. Its way harder for a primer to leak when it fits properly. Ive shot some brutal loads and not a single anvil/cup separation using a cheap sub $30 breach plug.

 

[wmdbowman]

Makes good sense to me. I do see an issue with some of the guns using a finger sight breech plug. Not all finger tightness is the same creating a difference in primer head space (crush). But if the gun will not lock closed one knows for sure the plug is not in correctly. One of my CVA guns will not seal regardless of what primer is used so the O ring is an easy fix for a good seal up to 140 Gr. Blackhorn loads which are brutal for me.
I'm referring to the CVA break action guns only. The bolt guns are a whole different story.

 

[GM54-120]

At one time you could buy shims for the firing pin bushing in CVAs. Getting just a .003 primer crush usually solves primer issues unless the primer pocket is too large OD. This is not an option with rifles like the Huntsman so plugs need to be made slightly long and material removed on the powder side to achieve the correct head space. You can also shim the primer pocket but then we are going back to LESS primer in the pocket.

Once its set you should buy a "brick" of primers to minimize lot to lot variations. Slightly too long is not a huge problem with bolt guns but can run into a big safety concern with a break action when snapping them shut. Get them too long and primers go off when the action is closed. I suppose it would not be too hard to rig up some kind of swage using a breach plug and a reloading press to basically size your primers too.

This is the thing i love about my NULA. It head spaces on the primer rim. The nose of the primer does not contact the plug. The rim is sandwiched between bolt and plug so tolerances have to be exact. Achieving this type of seal on a break action is probably not gunna happen.

 

[wmdbowman]

I opted out of the firing pin bushing and find the O ring OK, not the greatest but works well with the CVA plugs. I buy my primers by the brick to stay with constant lot numbers that may or may not help with consistency. It does help with the Hazmat cost.
The NULA set up is a very good one. I don't have experience with one but the design is well engineered .
I can't recommend sizing a primer of any type Shotshell, center fire, or percussion cap, Good way to get hurt!

 

[GM54-120]

Camming a bolt down on a live 209 is exactly what you are doing.....resizing the primer. Ive done it countless times and never had one go off even with a crush exceeding .005. Using a press just to make your primers uniform by around a .002 reduction if using say....a Win209 is not going to detonate them. Snapping shut a break action easily can. Ive seen it happen when the crush starts to get around .005.

One of my custom sized plugs crushes a Win209 by about .005+ and a Fed209A by about .003. It might be a problem when i need to buy a new lot of Win209s. If it gets to that point i will make bushing or something to allow me to put my plug in a Lee hand press. Next time im by Grafs i will pick up a fresh pack of NSIs and measure a bunch of them for variations. I seem to remember they were very consistent when i bought them before. Ive got a extra plug i can open up a bit for them to fit. They wont even begin to go in my Knight plugs.