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Ninering62 said:
Valid point, TY for that.
Click to expand...

Why do some rifles have perfect ignition with BH209, and others do not?

The answer is found on page 11 of the following report.

"Propellants have, in general, a monotomically increasing burning rate as a function of pressure."

There is a relationship between the burn rate and pressure when dealing with nitrocellulose-based propellants. If you pour some nitrocellulose-based powder onto a piece of metal in the open and put a match to it, you will find it burns much more poorly than black powder in the same situation.

A leaky ignition system in a muzzleloader produces a lower pressure.

If the bullet and sabot start moving down the barrel too soon it can produce a lower pressure, because it increases the volume of the reaction chamber.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA261009.pdf
.
 
I have a accura v2 50 cal. I have had hang fires with blackthorn 209 and I used the black horn breach plug installed. The bullet would move off of powder little and I had to push it back down to my witness mark on the ramrod and do it again . Called cva they said to make sure the plug had at least a 30 thou.hole I did have and having hang fires still , also had the same problem no matter what primer I used. Found out that cva recommends using white hot pellet loads for there accura and the standard breach plug. I changed to that and no more hangfires.
 
HV-Muzzleloaders said:
Why do some rifles have perfect ignition with BH209, and others do not?

The answer is found on page 11 of the following report.

"Propellants have, in general, a monotomically increasing burning rate as a function of pressure."

There is a relationship between the burn rate and pressure when dealing with nitrocellulose-based propellants. If you pour some nitrocellulose-based powder onto a piece of metal in the open and put a match to it, you will find it burns much more poorly than black powder in the same situation.

A leaky ignition system in a muzzleloader produces a lower pressure.

If the bullet and sabot start moving down the barrel too soon it can produce a lower pressure, because it increases the volume of the reaction chamber.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA261009.pdf
.
Click to expand...
The physics of that makes sense. Thanks for posting this & the link. I'll read it later. I love the never ending learning when it comes to muzzleloaders.
 
BigBoresmokepole said:
The bullet would move off of powder little and I had to push it back down to my witness mark on the ramrod and do it again .
Click to expand...

I had the same problem with some sabot/bullet combinations, but not with those that fit tighter in the bore. Why? Because it took more pressure to get the sabot/bullet moving down the barrel, which made the powder burn correctly.

Apparently, some of us have never had the problem.

I lost a buck one time due to a hang-fire and I will never forget it. I wounded the animal, but never found it. I looked for many hours. It made me sick.
 
Imagine this....... you load up and get into position to shoot. BANG! But its a different kind of BANG.

One of the guys at the 1K match dumped in his BH and a wad but forgot to load the bullet. The rifle still ignited the BH. However, this was also with LRP and modules.
 
HV-Muzzleloaders said:
I had the same problem with some sabot/bullet combinations, but not with those that fit tighter in the bore. Why? Because it took more pressure to get the sabot/bullet moving down the barrel, which made the powder burn correctly.

Apparently, some of us have never had the problem.

I lost a buck one time due to a hang-fire and I will never forget it. I wounded the animal, but never found it. I looked for many hours. It made me sick.
Click to expand...
I still use the same sabot 240 xtp it fits good in bore. I think I had a problem with the breach plug primer pocket letting blowby into the firing pin area . Still had blowby when using whitehots but not as bad. Found out still had to shim the firing pin bushing until no more leaks. It was frustrating having blowby and was going to sell the gun. But it worked out now I'm glad I figured it out and very happy. BH 209 is to costly and nonexistent in my area . I use 240 xtp or 240 cheap shots 3 pellets of whitehots and federal 209 kleanbore primers . Very accurate set up for me, I will stick with this its killed everything I shoot at and tranny fluid out out of both sides I use the gun for both gun seasons here in wisconsin and it my favorite gun now
 
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dbowling said:
dont have one siezed up now but have had a couple do it and was a real pain to get them broke loose.. Does it worse once you get up around 100 gr 777 or more, lower powder charges of 777 take longer to sieze a plug say maybe 15 shots or so.. when I shoot it anymore I will stop and break plug loose as soon as done shooting or every 10 shots while shooting.
Click to expand...
If you use the wrench that comes with the rifle that you use to seat the breech plug initially, getting a seized one out is a piece of cake.
 
FWIW when I got started with inline muzzleloaders a few years ago and after assessing all my options I chose BH209 as my powder to use in my CVA Accura V2 Plains Rifle and my CVA Paramount. After a bit of bench time and ditching the CVA BH breech plug in favor of the Lehigh BP with Vent Liners and o-rings I came to the conclusion I wasn't happy with that set up either. It was then I found the Arrowhead LRMP system and that's what I use to this day. In fact I ditched the Vari-flame set up that came in my Paramount in favor of the Arrowhead LRMP system as well. If you've never used this system then it's hard to quantify how much better it is than ANY 209 primers system. I use CCI 250 primers in my modules and I get zero leakage, consistent ignition and far more complete combustion with much less fouling. And based on my chronograph slightly tighter velocity spreads. It's expensive but in my opinion worth every penny.
Oh...and absolutely zero hang fires or misfires.
 
Pathfinder60 said:
FWIW when I got started with inline muzzleloaders a few years ago and after assessing all my options I chose BH209 as my powder to use in my CVA Accura V2 Plains Rifle and my CVA Paramount. After a bit of bench time and ditching the CVA BH breech plug in favor of the Lehigh BP with Vent Liners and o-rings I came to the conclusion I wasn't happy with that set up either. It was then I found the Arrowhead LRMP system and that's what I use to this day. In fact I ditched the Vari-flame set up that came in my Paramount in favor of the Arrowhead LRMP system as well. If you've never used this system then it's hard to quantify how much better it is than ANY 209 primers system. I use CCI 250 primers in my modules and I get zero leakage, consistent ignition and far more complete combustion with much less fouling. And based on my chronograph slightly tighter velocity spreads. It's expensive but in my opinion worth every penny.
Oh...and absolutely zero hang fires or misfires.
Click to expand...
I will check out the arrowhead LRMP thanks for the info .
 

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