Measuring volume on BH209

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Kraig

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Ok this might be a dumb question here. Been interested in using BH209 for a while and now I will use it in my new Mountaineer. Trying to understand the volume portion though. Now before, I was using a basic powder measure and measuring Pyrodex Select, dumping into the barrel and seating the bullet. I was using 100 grains. With BH209, do I use the same tool, and for example load it to 100 like I was doing with pyrodex and now I have "100 grains by volume"? Or do I need some sort of specific powder measure tool for BH209?

Thanks


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Use same powder measure. Volume is volume. The recommended load from blackhorn is 80-120max.
I would start at 100 .
You will get several opinions but i recommend using hoppes 9 mixed50/50 with91%alcohol and use1 damp patch and 2-3 dry ppatches between shots. Let barrel cool 5 minute after cleaning. This will give you a clean bore zerod gun ready to hunt
 
Awesome thanks Bestill. If figured that's how it worked but wanted to make sure. I'll probably end up getting a scale, regardless of the .7 conversion, and go by weight for consistency, but for now I'll play around with volume.


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GM54-120 said:
Bestill, try ISO HEET in your mix. Its 99% isopropyl alcohol and widely available too.

I like that thanks. Never gave that any thought but would be great.

Weight charge is rite way personally.
Start at 70 gr weight and i say you be happy
 
In trying to squeeze the best accuracy out of a rifle I hear more and more shooters talking about weighing their charges. After 40+ years of muzzleloader shooting I just started doing this for consistency purposes. What I do is measure a charge out by volume and pour it on my scale to get a weight. Then use that weight to preload my charges in grains.
Example, The Black MZ powder that I use in my Accura V2 a volume measure of 80 grains weighs out to 68 grains on the scale.
 
bronko220002 said:
Example, The Black MZ powder that I use in my Accura V2 a volume measure of 100 grains weighs out to 68 grains on the scale. That is pretty darn close to the 0.7:1 ratio.

Just curious, what brand/type of powder measure did you use?
 
that previous conversion was an error. It's 80 gr of volume of Black MZ is 68 gr by weight.

As for a powder measure I use a T/C U-view adjustable measure. It is marked in 5 gr increments.

As for swabbing between shots a 50/50 mix of 91% alcohol and windex works well too. And if you're using good old black powder you can simply use a spit patch to get the fouling out. But with Blackhorn 209 the biggest benefit they claim for using it is not having to swab between shots.
I like hunting with a clean barrel so regardless of what powder I'm using I always swab between shots when load testing or sighting in. When I'm just out on the range to make smoke then I just load and shoot swabbing maybe every 3 or 4 shots.
 
bestill said:
Use same powder measure. Volume is volume. The recommended load from blackhorn is 80-120max.
I would start at 100 .
You will get several opinions but i recommend using hoppes 9 mixed50/50 with91%alcohol and use1 damp patch and 2-3 dry ppatches between shots. Let barrel cool 5 minute after cleaning. This will give you a clean bore zerod gun ready to hunt

Sorry but this is wrong. I've found that all powder measures are not the same. I can't seem to use the search function but I have a post regarding this.

On my powder measures (can't remember brand) 70gr. by weight measures 92 by volume. I lt SHOULD measure 100gr. By volume. Going up to 110, 120 by volume would put me dangerously over charged. I ALWAYS weigh my charges now.

Emrah


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emrah said:
bestill said:
Use same powder measure. Volume is volume. The recommended load from blackhorn is 80-120max.
I would start at 100 .
You will get several opinions but i recommend using hoppes 9 mixed50/50 with91%alcohol and use1 damp patch and 2-3 dry ppatches between shots. Let barrel cool 5 minute after cleaning. This will give you a clean bore zerod gun ready to hunt

Sorry but this is wrong. I've found that all powder measures are not the same. I can't seem to use the search function but I have a post regarding this.

On my powder measures (can't remember brand) 70gr. by weight measures 92 by volume. I lt SHOULD measure 100gr. By volume. Going up to 110, 120 by volume would put me dangerously over charged. I ALWAYS weigh my charges now.

Emrah


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I havent started with BH209 yet but when I do I will probably weigh my charges too. If nothing else for consistency. But for volume I've read a lot of guys using the TC U-View. Might order one. Need to find a good powder scale..any recommendations?


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This is the one I have:
08e19edef7b08fa2700ed529d14245dd.jpg


I think it's a CVA. Nowhere close to accurate with BH209

Emrah


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I weight my BH209 if for nothing else it sure is convenient and easy to dump a tube of powder down the bore then fill a measure then dump it down the bore. I messed around with a volume measure and found that my pores were up to 5 grains off unless I did everything exactly the same each time, 5 grains might not matter in the grand scheme of things but it makes me feel better to weight the charge.

I clean my BH209 shooting muzzys with M-Pro 7 so about every 4 or 5 shots I just run a wet patch of MPro down the barrel then a couple 3 dry patches and carry on. Before I case the rifle at the end of a shooting season I do the same just to make cleaning easier once I get home.
 
emrah said:
bestill said:
Use same powder measure. Volume is volume. The recommended load from blackhorn is 80-120max.
I would start at 100 .
You will get several opinions but i recommend using hoppes 9 mixed50/50 with91%alcohol and use1 damp patch and 2-3 dry ppatches between shots. Let barrel cool 5 minute after cleaning. This will give you a clean bore zerod gun ready to hunt

Sorry but this is wrong. I've found that all powder measures are not the same. I can't seem to use the search function but I have a post regarding this.

On my powder measures (can't remember brand) 70gr. by weight measures 92 by volume. I lt SHOULD measure 100gr. By volume. Going up to 110, 120 by volume would put me dangerously over charged. I ALWAYS weigh my charges now.

Emrah


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My statement was made in reference to the original post.

I personally weight all my charges.
Volume measure will always be subject to users techniques. Tapping,shaking or just pouring.
I will say this plastic measures are junk. And if your load volume near the upper limits of measure not as accurate. I would recommend getting a magnum measure which goes to 150 gr then you are measure in middle of calibration.

Filling measure. I have found that blackhorn with pyrodex funnel on jug if i pour over a container and pour volume measure fast as possible full letting run over then scrape top off level will pour within a grain every time.
Dealing with blackpowder and subs volume is truly a relative measure. You do it the same every time and find what works truly doesn't matter what measure says for your setup.

Staying within powder company recommendations. Which is certainly a very conservative number.

If concerned find a pour techniques and stay with it then calibrate your volume by weight. Blackhorn gives weight equivalents.
70 weight to 100 volume
 
Change your group mindset a little bit, consider shooting two shot groups, not three or five, however shoot three- five session ,two shot groups, I have had a lot of break action Optima Acuras Etc shoot 70 grains by weight and the I don't ask the little guns to put three - five in a hole I asked them to put two shots touching however, like I mentioned I shoot two shot groups on subsequent days. If I had all my shooting though that I needed to get done in one setting I understand the need to shoot groups with three to five I would make sure I let the gun cool off to absolutely the same temperature that it began with the first shot another reality is this almost everyone shooting the lightweight break actions if they're honest and they're shooting a group of three that third shot is going to roam off the group some unless they're really letting the rifle cool back to cold and sometimes fouling and in the stage of fouling plus ambient temperature same to affect things a little bit too I believe now of course from a hunting aspect it's those first two bullets I'm very interested in where they're going,,, it's why I'm so adamant about my Mantra, two bullets touching but only with break actions, anything else I expect the three- five shot group to determine accuracy.
My Accura will shoot a good to fair 3 shot group but #4 will usually fly.
My CVA Scout SML, also a light break action, will pack 3 shots just under MOA.
 
This may have been covered but you can’t use same weight of BH 209 when you get a new bottle with a different lot number

The strength of each lot of BH is set by volume. So I always start off with a new lot number measuring by volume. Most people will throw 10 lots by volume, weighing each one and average the weight to use.

In other words 80 grs (weighed) BH with lot A is not the same as 80 grs (weighed) in lot B.

And conversely 80 gr (volume) from lot A will usually not weigh the same as 80 gr (volume) from lot B
 
OK From my brief run with Blackhorn 209 like all substitutes there is a difference between Volume and Weight, The Volume suggested will need to be weighed to get the weight needed,, Similar to Pyrodex 50 grains of pyrodex is 34.5 grains in weight When dealing with substitutes Volume is NOT WEIGHT
 
I prefer using a gram scale to weigh BH. If you weigh it you will quickly realize that using any volumetric measurement method will not get you a consistent load. Just a couple of those little BH rounds can add up to a gram. If you are not super careful your charges could easily vary by 10 or more grams.
A plus or minus 5 gram scale is not particularly good in my opinion. I have been stealing my wife's jewelry scale for this. It's accurate to 10ths of grams. They can be really cheap to buy. The one I use costs under $15.00.
To measure my charges, I pour through a funnel into a tube. I get within one gram and then transfer to a storage tube. I always pour into the same tube on the scale so that I do not need to take the tubes weight into consideration every time.
If you are into archery as I'm sure a lot of us are, the scale is useful for weighing broadheads and shafts.1707398282436.png
 

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