Deep Curl Obturate

[ronlaughlin]

Say one had a smooth form Swinglock die, and used it to size 45 caliber Deep Curl bullets so they could be pushed down the barrel of a 45 caliber muzzle loader rifle. How much Blackhorn does one need to burn, to get the bullets to engage the rifling, when the rifle is fired?

Is 90g enough? How about 100g? Is 110g enough? Am guessing the max of 120g is plenty enough, but?

 

[Boomer]

Don’t know the answer to your question, but do you also happen to have a full form Swing-Lock die? By accident, found that full formed bullets for my 45 caliber Pacnor Barrel fit my GM fast twist barrels, be it a bit loose. Didn’t try to adjust die so they would tighten up, as all I run in my GM barrels are paper patch bullets. If you have a full form die with rifling close enough to what your trying to shoot the Deep Curls in, would that rotation from rifling being engaged improve or help upsetting the bullet into the rifling?

Again, have not tried it and doubt I will, but it might work if your die and barrel are similar enough.

 

[ronlaughlin]

No full form die. No smooth form die. Am trying to find out if it would be worth purchasing a smooth form die, and trying to shoot the bullets in a 45 caliber rifle without sabot. Am quite ignorant.

 

[BuckDoeHunter]

How thick is the jacket on a deep curl?

 

[ronlaughlin]

Don't know what it is supposed to be.............one of these measured about 0.019" after being cut in half, and lead melted out.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I'd bet a cola they'd size and work great, but a wad would likely be required. I believe they're made for handgun velocities ????

 

[ronlaughlin]

Using a wad is no problem. Wonder if they would engage the rifling if the powder charge was only 90g?

 

[ENCORE50A]

Using a wad is no problem. Wonder if they would engage the rifling if the powder charge was only 90g?

Looking over some of the loading data and velocities Speer has on their web page, then comparing it to the BH data and velocities, one might assume it should.

 

[Boomer]

You could get a Lee sizing die (~$20~) a little loose for your barrel and hone the diameter up until you get the fit you want instead laying out money for a Swing-Lock if you just want to try something. And agree you will need a wad to get accuracy with a smooth land rider, no different than XPTs or any other jacketed pistol bullet.

Full disclosure, have only shot sabotless in smokeless guns, typically with duplex loads to ensure ignition and bullet obturation. Not sure how Deep Curls will perform with Blackhorn.

 

[ronlaughlin]

The mv has been clocked at 1800 fps or thereabouts by me. From experience we know the bullet works on deer at that mv at 55 yard, 60 yard, and 140 yard.

What we don't know is if the bullet will obturate. Will the bullet engage the rifling?

 

[ronlaughlin]

have only shot sabotless in smokeless guns, typically with duplex loads to ensure ignition and bullet obturation.

"ensure" Yes, am looking for assurance. Perhaps a duplex load will be required, which probably won't happen.

 

[Boomer]

"ensure" Yes, am looking for assurance. Perhaps a duplex load will be required, which probably won't happen.

FYI, I am talking about having used smokeless duplex loads.

Curious what attraction of the Deep Curl is, not that it really matters? Guess it’s something you will have to try if you want to find out how they work. If you already have the bullets, you just need a Lee die or someone local with a die to try. Shipping off to someone with a die makes little sense as that would cost almost as much as a Lee die, at least in my opinion. The Swing-Lock is a much bigger investment, but are great dies.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Boomer, yes, i understood you are shooting smokeless. My thought was perhaps doing a duplex with Blackhorn as the main powder, but that is quite unlikely. It is not something i am very interested in.

Evidently i am infatuated with Deep Curl bullets. They fly good, and they kill good. They are bonded, and they are inexpensive. The only con is sometimes they are hard to find.

..........Guess it’s something you will have to try if you want to find out how they work...........

Yes, it seems so.

The little experience i have with sabotless..................indicates more than one size die will be needed. Unless there turns up a strong reason not to, the Swinglock is in my future.

 

[Boomer]

Boomer, yes, i understood you are shooting smokeless. My thought was perhaps doing a duplex with Blackhorn as the main powder, but that is quite unlikely. It is not something i am very interested in.

Evidently i am infatuated with Deep Curl bullets. They fly good, and they kill good. They are bonded, and they are inexpensive. The only con is sometimes they are hard to find.


Yes, it seems so.

The little experience i have with sabotless..................indicates more than one size die will be needed. Unless there turns up a strong reason not to, the Swinglock is in my future.

I bit the bullet on a number of Swing-Locks a number of years ago. Full form and smooth. You can tweak the Lees, but it’s a one way deadend street proposition, as you can only enlarge them. No backing up. Feeding four different barrels with the Swing-Locks I have. Something else to consider, if you change bullets, you may need to adjust sizing die to get the exact barrel fit you want. For example, going from jacketed to monolithic, you will find bullet diameter spring back will be different.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I sized up 3 different bullets yesterday. The Fury 275gr and 300gr ST2, then sized up the 300gr Pittman Accumax. All 3 bullets required a different die setting to load in my barrel at 15-18#.
The Pittman required the most significant adjustment, but even the adjustment between the two Fury bullets was considerable for just a 25gr weight difference.
I honestly believe that if one wants to shoot land riders it requires an adjustable sizing die.

I'm back to shooting BH for the remainder of my shooting sessions and this years hunting season. I sent 20 yesterday to knock off some rust after an over 3 month layoff. My intent is to do more prior to our opener, Nov. 15th. If you'd like, you could put 5 of them in a padded mailer and I'd try them in my rifle. I would shoot them at the charge you preferred and distance not greater than 107yds. I wouldn't make any scope adjustments, just shoot at a spot on a large piece of cardboard to see if they'd group.

 

[Sideshow]

Boomer, yes, i understood you are shooting smokeless. My thought was perhaps doing a duplex with Blackhorn as the main powder, but that is quite unlikely. It is not something i am very interested in.

Evidently i am infatuated with Deep Curl bullets. They fly good, and they kill good. They are bonded, and they are inexpensive. The only con is sometimes they are hard to find.


Yes, it seems so.

The little experience i have with sabotless..................indicates more than one size die will be needed. Unless there turns up a strong reason not to, the Swinglock is in my future.

I wouldnt rule out the duplexing of Blackhorn . Its a cheap fix for my White and bullets a little loose fitting . Seems to really get the Blackhorn cookin with 10 to 15 gr of pyro p . Works pretty good and its cheap . Not too dirty either .

 

[ronlaughlin]

OK, duplexing isn't ruled out, however, neither is it probable.

 

[ronlaughlin]

.........opener, Nov. 15th. If you'd like, you could put 5 of them in a padded mailer and I'd try them in my rifle. I would shoot them at the charge you preferred and distance not greater than 107yds...............

That is very kind of you to offer. Would rather send bullets after your season ends. Charge would be 90 grain; 107 yard is good.

 

[ENCORE50A]

That is very kind of you to offer. Would rather send bullets after your season ends. Charge would be 90 grain; 107 yard is good.

Season ends here Jan 1st. There will be snow clear to my ask by then. I'll be shooting right up until Nov. 14th. I'll try them for you if you'd like.

 

[SuperKirby]

I thought the swinglock was one of things I would never buy. Seemed too complicated I guess. Finally my desire to get rid of sabots outgrew my resolve and I purchased one. Turns out I had been missing out. Being able to adjust the swinglock with the turn of a wrench for different bullets is convenient. Drop a war then the bullet and I'm good to go. Very happy with it. I believe you will be too.