Just Like Blackhorn

[LHR]

I would absolutely have to have zero BH209 available, before I would ever consider using anything with 777 on it again. In fact, I would probably just not hunt.

My sentiments too. But then I'd probably pick up a sharp stick instead!

 

[ronlaughlin]

The Triple Seven ff powder was loaded just like Blackhorn i.e. no swabbing between shots. Shot nine times. Powder charge was 78 weighed grain of 777. A poly wad was used each load. 250g Deep Curl bullet was sized to go down the barrel, to the powder, easily. Winchester large pistol primer finishes the load. No swabbing between shots.

So the OP reveals 9 shots were loaded without swabbing. Seems like loading just one or two shots shouldn't be too bad. Why give up hunting or switching to a sharp stick? Me, i wonder if eliminating the sabot makes for easier loading through the crud ring?

 

[LHR]

So the OP reveals 9 shots were loaded without swabbing. Seems like loading just one or two shots shouldn't be too bad. Why give up hunting or switching to a sharp stick? Me, i wonder if eliminating the sabot makes for easier loading through the crud ring?

That was a joke and just means I loathe 777 compared to BH209.
I wonder if the plastic and 777 together is what causes the crud ring in the first place?

 

[ronlaughlin]

I wonder if the plastic and 777 together is what causes the crud ring in the first place?

Worth a look.

One thing is certain -- it is certain this hunter will never take 777 hunting, never, ever.

 

[dwm]

I hunt with 777 only, I also have had the hang fire with black horn on occasion,I don’t want to take the chance while hunting.it may have been my fault , but I never have issues with 777 ignition, plus the cost these days

 

[sabotloader]

I am not sure if this might interest any one or not. Several years ago I did a comparison test over a chrono comparing BH and T7 for velocity. The test shooting was done at about 3000 ft. above sea level.

45 Test

50 Test

Not sure there is anything significant here but it did satisfy my curiosity.

 

[rmagnus]

I started in the beginning with pellets, couldn’t stand the crud ring so I switched to BH 209 and really like it. I still use pellets in my Traditions when a buddy wants to borrow it for ML season, I simply sighted the gun in to shoot both lose and pellets the same using a Barnes TE-Z 250 grain bullet/sabot combo. At 100 yards or less it is a one and done setup. My CVA will shoot up to 10 shots without cleaning with BH 209 and group very well, then I just push a wet patch then a couple dry patches through the barrel and make sure the BP flash channel is clear and shoot 10 more.

What is your issue with BH 209 besides availability?

In your CVA do you use the BH209 breech plug with BH209 powder?

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Not sure there is anything significant here but it did satisfy my curiosity.

The MSD sheet for Tiple 7 is found below.
It contains more corrosive oxidizers than BH209, which is mainly made up of Nitrocellulose with Guanidine Nitrate.

SDS Sheets-Hodgdon Muzzleloading-2017.xlsx

 

[sabotloader]

You are correct that T7 is potentially more corrosive than BH, but not near as corrosive as real BP, Pyro Powders or even other subs. And also correct with the statement that BH is less corrosive, but BH is still corrosive.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

You are correct that T7 is potentially more corrosive than BH, but not near as corrosive as real BP, Pyro Powders or even other subs. And also correct with the statement that BH is less corrosive, but BH is still corrosive.

T7 is 30% Potassium Nitrate, which is the same chemical found in fertilizer that will eat up your farm machinery. It is the same oxidizer found in Black Powder.

.

 

[snapbang]

Then its starting to corrode in your barrel from the time you load it. Just not to a noticeable degree.

 

[eekjellander]

Could be wrong. My theory is that if one shoots often enough it would prevent corrosion from setting in. In other words, assuming the bore isn’t exposed to extremely wet conditions, if the rifle is shot every day or two, rust would be unable to set up.
I could be wrong.

YUP probably your right (about wrong)/Ed

 

[sabotloader]

T7 is 30% Potassium Nitrate, which is the same chemical found in fertilizer that will eat up your farm machinery. It is the same oxidizer found in Black Powder..

I can only speak for myself but I have never found T7 to be as corrosive as you are suggesting - UNLESS a fouled bore is left unattended and it were to get wet. That certainly could lead to a problem.

I load and shoot to check zero in early October. I will run a damp Blue Windex patch through the bore to semi - clean the bore, then reload. And as much as I hate admitting this, it can stay loaded on this semi-clean barrel until mid to late December - IF I do not shoot it. If I do shoot it, I repeat the process and go again. The key in my operation is to keep the bore dry.

 

[ENCORE50A]

I can only speak for myself but I have never found T7 to be as corrosive as you are suggesting - UNLESS a fouled bore is left unattended and it were to get wet. That certainly could lead to a problem.......................

I'll agree. Lord knows I've certainly shot my share of T7 and never had an issue corrosion or any barrel problems. I kept my barrel swabbed between rounds and complete cleaning after a session.

 

[mnoland30]

Shooting 777 in a Kahnke rifle (I believe hand lapped barrel) and #11 caps, I never knew what a crud ring was. Of course, I swabbed between shots with a licked patch. I also never had a misfire, although a few hang fires until I started using Winchester Magnum #11's. In my Accura .45, I've had a couple of misfires, and constant crud ring using 777. I'm retired, and not rich like many on this forum, so I don't really like paying $1 a round for powder. I'll settle for 777. It works.

 

[Caniborrowsomeammo]

I surely ain't rich, mostly frugal but I have a bunch of BH 209 for hunting loads, if I get to go hunting. So far it has never failed to go off provided I use Fed 209s and the correct breech plug.
I'll use T7 for fun, shooting and dealing with the crud ring leisurely is no problem, and was told by a shooting buddy that he was going to give me a few pounds he will never again shoot after dealing with the crud ring.
But I have started making my own Black, I test each batch in my Optima, then use it in my sidelocks. (again thanks snapbang).

 

[Neumonic]

In your CVA do you use the BH209 breech plug with BH209 powder?

Yes I do

 

[mnoland30]

They recommend the BH209 breech plug for any loose powder, although my Accura shot fine with the original plug. My buddy bought one last year, and it came with the BH209 plug.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

They recommend the BH209 breech plug for any loose powder, although my Accura shot fine with the original plug. My buddy bought one last year, and it came with the BH209 plug.

The following Safety Data Sheet for Blackhorn 209 reveals it to be 83 % Nitrocellulose, which is the same chemical in smokeless powder. It takes more pressure to make it burn correctly. A loose-fitting bullet or sabot will often not do the job.

2022-Blackhorn-209-SDS.pdf (blackhorn209.com)

 

[MrTom]

They recommend the BH209 breech plug for any loose powder, although my Accura shot fine with the original plug. My buddy bought one last year, and it came with the BH209 plug.

I think it has a lot to do with the air temps as to whether a factory CVA plug will get along with BH209. A soon as I had my Accura and Optima pistol in my hands I ordered the BH209 compatible plugs and did not shoot either gun until I had the new plugs. I always carried the old plugs in my range box and one day when it was right around -5 degrees, I hit the range and tried a factory plug with BH209 and a CCI magnum primer.... hang fire. Tried a second, then third shots and had the same results. Then I screwed in the BH209 plug and the gun never missed. Later in the spring I tried the same thing when it was around 70 degrees and the original plug and BH209 got along just fine.

I took it a step further though and converted the original plugs to ones that use vent liners also with the deeper cup in the powder end that is called for with the 209 powder. The vent liners have a larger flame hole and most assuredly ignite the BH209 powder in any circumstance, but the original plugs will work with BH209 powder IF the gun is used in a warmer climate, like desert in Arizona. Of course looking at this winter's weather it is getting harder and harder to find a warmer climate even in the south.