Just Like Blackhorn

[Okie Hog]

I can only speak for myself but I have never found T7 to be as corrosive as you are suggesting -

Neither have i.

Many folks who experience serious crud ring problems use huge charges of 777 powder. IME: The crud ring is reduced when smaller charges are used. The crud ring in my #11 cap primed guns is minimal when charges of 100 measured grains and smaller are used.

i would never have a problem when hunting with a rifle loaded with 777.

 

[ENCORE50A]

The following Safety Data Sheet for Blackhorn 209 reveals it to be 83 % Nitrocellulose, which is the same chemical in smokeless powder. It takes more pressure to make it burn correctly. A loose-fitting bullet or sabot will often not do the job.

2022-Blackhorn-209-SDS.pdf (blackhorn209.com)

It has more to do with the breech plug than the propellant. If a properly designed breech plug is used, it'll go bang every time with as little as 9# of loading force. It'll also go bang at -3° every time.

 

[ronlaughlin]

Wonder if the myth that one needs a tight fitting bullet to shoot Blackhorn will ever ever go away.

 

[GM54-120]

All i know is in my Knights i was able to shoot .451 345-488gr soft lead conicals from a .450ish land barrel no problem. That was just with a Win209 too. I didnt even use a mag primer most of the time. They loaded so easy i didnt even need a short starter.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Wonder if the myth that one needs a tight fitting bullet to shoot Blackhorn will ever ever go away.

That would depend on the standardization of the definition for the term "tight fitting".

or...

If the chemical composition of BH209 is changed to be more like Black Powder, whose burning characteristics can be demonstrated to be different from Nitrocellulose.

 

[ronlaughlin]

That would depend on the standardization of the definition for the term "tight fitting".

It has already been standardized by Oxford Languages, and Websters; places like that.

fixed, fastened, or closed firmly; hard to move, undo, or open


Me i hate it when the bullet is 'hard to move' down to the powder so my bullets are always sized to be 'easy' to move down to the powder, and they shoot good.

 

[ourway77]

I'll agree. Lord knows I've certainly shot my share of T7 and never had an issue corrosion or any barrel problems. I kept my barrel swabbed between rounds and complete cleaning after a session.

I shot 777 from the day it was introduced Yes it can corrode but as said only left for a long period of time then you are asking for trouble After the day hunting I would unload it (Fire) clean it as soon as I got home Then fired a couple caps reloaded the rifle for the next day left it in the cold garage

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

Me i hate it when the bullet is 'hard to move' down to the powder so my bullets are always sized to be 'easy' to move down to the powder,

I had a customer bring one of the first Savage muzzleloaders to my shop yesterday, which uses the steel primer module which looks like a small cartridge and uses a 209 primer.

He wanted me to shoot it, so he gave me 42 grains of 5744 to put in it.
He then handed me a BOR lock bullet to put in next.
I noticed the bullet almost fell down the muzzle and required almost no pressure with the ramrod.

We went outside to fire the rifle.
I added the primer module with 209 primer.

When I pulled the trigger, the rifle made a small burp sound and the bullet fell out of the end of the barrel.
I wish you could have seen the look on the man's face.

We cleaned the bore and tried again with a "tighter" fitting sabot and bullet.
It went bang the second time, and the bullet hit the target at 100 yards.

When we finished the man said he did not want to take a chance of the rifle not firing when a big buck was standing in front of him.
He decided a BOR lock bullet can be too loose in his Savage rifle as it came from the factory, with that powder.

.

 

[ronlaughlin]

So the bullet/sabot that worked wasn't tight by definition?

 

[sqezer]

This was a very interesting read, I'm switching back to T7 because there is no BH-209 to be found in Wisc. and shooting bore land rider Parker and Fury bullets in my 1-20 Super Knight. So fare the Parker 250 extreme shoot very well in the 1-20 and 2 of the .45 Knight Disc extremes. Next is to resize some of the 250 Fury bullets. I'll shoot some of the Parker with T7 and see how they shoot compare to the BH-209.

 

[Ninering62]

Wonder if the myth that one needs a tight fitting bullet to shoot Blackhorn will ever ever go away.

In my accura with the dead center .40 bullets & sabots, they are not a " tight fit " in my bore. They load very easily. They shoot way under moa out to 200yds & velocity is very consistent. My Paramount I use 275gr Fury bullets, I size them so that I only need about 10lbs of downforce when loading. They go right down to seat in one fast smooth action. The gun has a very consistent velocity & ES & shoots way under moa. So in my 3 yrs exp with BH 209 in 2 guns, I've seen for myself that you are absolutely right.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

In my accura with the dead center .40 bullets & sabots, they are not a " tight fit " in my bore. They load very easily. They shoot way under moa out to 200yds & velocity is very consistent. My Paramount I use 275gr Fury bullets, I size them so that I only need about 10lbs of downforce when loading. They go right down to seat in one fast smooth action. The gun has a very consistent velocity & ES & shoots way under moa. So in my 3 yrs exp with BH 209 in 2 guns, I've seen for myself that you are absolutely right.

If the ignition system and barrel of every muzzleloader was exactly like yours, both of you guys would probably be correct.

 

[GM54-120]

My NULA would ignite any powder and loose fitting sabot with a regular CCI209 or CCI209M. Never tried it with conicals. Shot plenty in my Knights without a poof though. A Parker BE that was sized .449ish then knurled up too about .452 loaded so easy in my old DISC after getting past the crown i had doubts. Went off every time though. Plus shot fantastic.

 

[HV-Muzzleloaders]

At least one person had problems with BH209.

 

[GM54-120]

He was trying BH209 in a OEM plug with just the flash hole enlarged. The blowby he was getting is just filthy. Plus using a SST 3Petal-EZ load stabot.

 

[eekjellander]

At least one person had problems with BH209.

Looking at his (BENCH) I'm not surprised at his results at everything else he's tried /Ed

 

[ElDiablo]

Surprised that guy got the right end of the rifle loaded!

 

[Ninering62]

If the ignition system and barrel of every muzzleloader was exactly like yours, both of you guys would probably be correct.

Valid point, TY for that.

 

[Ninering62]

Looking at his (BENCH) I'm not surprised at his results at everything else he's tried /Ed

jeeeezzzzz I thought that I had a total Redneck Hucklebuck shooting bench set-up with 2 metal saw horses & a concrete pad a heat pump sat on & a folding metal chair. I had a high dollar professional set up compared to that guy.

 

[dwm]

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