CVA Accura MR-X .45 without issues?

[ElDiablo]

Be clear. I'm not advocating or not for these bullets and BPI in general, (besides Bergara, no one can honestly say bad things about them...) All I am saying is they didn't botch it as bad as some people make it out
Did they have some quality control issues? Absolutely. Recalls? Yup. But that doesn't diminish the success, at least in my eyes. I personally think that free floating Bergara barrel is worth every penny you pay, no matter what quirky issues the rifle itself may have. Those barrels are absolute gems in my experience. Some of the best in the production barrel business, if not THE best. Personally, that's what sold me on the rifle. And it's relatives. I trust Bergara. The most important part of any rifle is it's barrel. Period. So I personally took the route that got me the highest level barrel I could achieve, given the comparison in price. And really at all. I mean is any barrel on a production muzzy better than a Bergara? Not to mention it's fluted with a nitride coating it's entirety, and cerakoted on top of the receiver and barrel. So durability is no question.The rest of the Accura MR-X is actually fairly clever as well. Adjustable trigger which imo is the perfect hunting trigger. All the way down I'd put it ,2.5lbs. Zero take up like actually zero movement in the blade prior to sear engaging, and s crisp clean predictable break. Every time. The adjustable cheek comb I'd say should be standard on all modern rifles by now. Soft touch synthetic stock in cammo print. This is a really nice stock. The adjustable cheek comb is clutch. The soft touch synthetic when done right I'd one of my favorite stock configurations. Cammo pattern works well in my area, the pistol grip is substantial in feel. Meaning ergonomics for you to grip the rifle as you please. There is enough room for you to wrap your thumb, (terrible habit) or test it. The fact it's threaded for a brake is icing on the cake. I mean a Bergara barrel to begin with is pretty special on a muzzy. But the ability to run a brake out of the box on a muzzy is spectacular. Outside of quality control issues doesn't that all sound really intriguing?

Not really. I thought you said you weren’t a “CVA fanboy.”

 

[Ninering62]

I can taste the sarcasm.

Does it taste like chicken? Bc we really need one more thing that ISN't chicken, but ppl say it tastes just like it.

 

[LAUDY1962]

I have done some research on the ELR and I just do not like the construction of the bullet. I had a wonderful call yesterday from Parker Productions. Mr. Parker himself called after I sent his company a question on CVA MR-X.45cal. He spent over 20 min with me on the phone and stated that the Paramount and the MR-X rifles has seen some issues with bullet to bore issues. He has done extensive field testing and recommends the Parker Black Max extreme in 300 grn and oversized. He has put together a system including sizing dies, and 50 bullets to try. He also sent me several emails with attachments for this process. Great support. I'm looking forward to receiving this purchase form Parker Productions. I have read allot of good reviews on the Parker Bullets so I believe this will be my go to bullet for the MR-X. I will keep everyone posted as I receive the product and test it with my Rifle. Stay safe and shoot often

 

[MrTom]

In my opinion I think they have the right idea, it's just being produced on such a massive scale that cost effectiveness takes away a lot of things. Like for in stance if they thickened the copper, got rid of the polymer and used an alloy, same with gas check, make the lead mass and copper plating cup or dish based to ensure a proper gas seal, and yeah the idea of a spire point like bullet with a tip made of an alloy that allows the massive hollow point to do a massive energy dump upon impact, while retaining a lead base that continues on through the media. The cup or dish based ensures a proper gas seal as the bullet obturates upon ignition.
All these principles are employed in elr bullets just made in the most cost effective way possible. That's business.
I forgot to mention the two smaller caliber bullets being long bearing surfaced and sharp ogived giving them superb bc's for muzzy's. So yeah I kinda think they're onto something... I did watch someone hit an ,8x8" target at 1,000 yards after just a few shots. That was a .40 cal elr... Enough for me in my book.

I think they're still trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. My intentions were to shoot 200 grain .40 XTP's in my BP/Smokeless .45 rifle, but have since done some of my own studying and will shoot the .225 grain Star Tip Fury when I hunt with the gun simply because the bullet has a rtrue copper jacket and is bonded. The key here is bonded. XTP's are not, nor are any of the power belts. Whil;e the ELR you refer to maybe has some tougher lead alloy, its doubtful that there is any way to control the explosive expansion that has plagued the line.

What still remains undone to help CVA get credibility back is for independent, non-employee, field testing on actual game animals in the deer size range. While CVA may be taking great strides to resolve this self-inflicted shot in the foot, they have really put the screws to a lot of people and are now in a position where they need some outside help. Right now everything CVA touts has as much use as toilet paper so thin your thumb goes thru it when its used. I think your research is a good thing for you, but you need to keep in mind that most everyone here who MIGHT be remotely interested in one of the X guns is going to want [need] to be able to shoot bullets of their choice. Proprietary bullets may interest a very few, but most shooters will not want to be strapped with them. Why don't you find some answers OUTSIDE of what CVA writes and let us know what the scoop is?

 

[kylestacey2990]

Not really. I thought you said you weren’t a “CVA fanboy.”

Ok... As I said I'm not... I like my CVA Accura MR-X. I liked my CVA wolf. I think Bergara makes the best barrel you can buy out of the box for a muzzy. And they make some of the most amazing center fire rifles around. You could call me a Bergara fan boy, yes. But I think I clearly stated while they haven't done me wrong, I'm in no way a "fan boy" of them. I think they're a corporation who does what they have to to cut cost on mass produced products. Like any other big corp. So your little emojis are cute but your question is an already moot point. So have your fun. I think it's cute when people entertain themselves with internet politics. I'm here to learn and share information about muzzleloaders. Not play the this is better than that game... Anyone who can't admit that CVA can make a mean muzzy has some soul searching and reality checks to get through... I haven't seen any other muzzleloaders on the market that out of the box can get a hit at 1,000 yards. But you're right. They suck really bad... SMH

 

[kylestacey2990]

I think they're still trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. My intentions were to shoot 200 grain .40 XTP's in my BP/Smokeless .45 rifle, but have since done some of my own studying and will shoot the .225 grain Star Tip Fury when I hunt with the gun simply because the bullet has a rtrue copper jacket and is bonded. The key here is bonded. XTP's are not, nor are any of the power belts. Whil;e the ELR you refer to maybe has some tougher lead alloy, its doubtful that there is any way to control the explosive expansion that has plagued the line.

What still remains undone to help CVA get credibility back is for independent, non-employee, field testing on actual game animals in the deer size range. While CVA may be taking great strides to resolve this self-inflicted shot in the foot, they have really put the screws to a lot of people and are now in a position where they need some outside help. Right now everything CVA touts has as much use as toilet paper so thin your thumb goes thru it when its used. I think your research is a good thing for you, but you need to keep in mind that most everyone here who MIGHT be remotely interested in one of the X guns is going to want [need] to be able to shoot bullets of their choice. Proprietary bullets may interest a very few, but most shooters will not want to be strapped with them. Why don't you find some answers OUTSIDE of what CVA writes and let us know what the scoop is?

I understand completely how people can be suspicious given that the corporation themselves is doing all the testing. But it's not like I call CVA to get my opinions. I base my opinion off internet research, which yes actually does include independent reviews of rifles, such as the MR-X and LR-X. The paramount also. Even the optima and wolf. I've watched literally HOURS of footage of shots taken with these rifles hunts done with them, accuracy tests. Not more than maybe 10% of my information is coming directly out of CVA'S mouth. If you scour the internet, there are plenty of actual customers, reviewing shooting, and testing, pretty much every modern inline out there. I don't understand why people think I just read a brochure to come to my conclusions. It's like people think I'm up here touting cva as the best thing since sliced bread. I'm in no way saying CVA is without fault. For many blunders. But so are most corporate businesses. They cut as much cost as they can. But it doesn't change the innovation they've been throwing at the industry. Doesn't change the fact that a paramount is one of the best modern muzzleloaders available to date. And it doesn't change the accuracy of their Bergara barreled monsters. Are there some fails? Yup. But I personally haven't had to deal with them. So my opinion of CVA may be higher than others, but make no mistake I'm in no way saying they're perfect. Or that I wouldn't grab a Remington ML in a heartbeat. I'm just calling it as I see it, based on the information I've unbiasedly attained. Personal experience and plenty of videos and articles, on a multitude of sites, is how I've come to said conclusions. So please don't mistake me for someone who randomly ordered an MR-X, read the brochure and called myself a genius in the muzzleloader world. I come from a long range pcp shooting background. I built my own regulators with a company in the Netherlands called Huma air, did all the testing, all the way out to 500 yards. With air. That takes some serious work and ballistic knowledge to get a 62 grain slug, running at 1,000 fps, to stay sub moa all the way out to 500 yards, using only atmospheric air. So I'm not fool. I'm not expert either but I've seen the same exact situation in that world with a company called fx. They are the CVA of the pcp world. They build amazingly accurate rifles that have spectacular power and all sorts of modularity, but they cut every cost they can, therefore causing some problems. But no one can deny them that their rifles when manufactured correctly are absolute laser beams. I hated them too, but still built one that I could pick crows off at 200 yards with without even batting an eye... Point is no matter the reputation and fault of a company, you have to give credit where it's due.

 

[kylestacey2990]

I have done some research on the ELR and I just do not like the construction of the bullet. I had a wonderful call yesterday from Parker Productions. Mr. Parker himself called after I sent his company a question on CVA MR-X.45cal. He spent over 20 min with me on the phone and stated that the Paramount and the MR-X rifles has seen some issues with bullet to bore issues. He has done extensive field testing and recommends the Parker Black Max extreme in 300 grn and oversized. He has put together a system including sizing dies, and 50 bullets to try. He also sent me several emails with attachments for this process. Great support. I'm looking forward to receiving this purchase form Parker Productions. I have read allot of good reviews on the Parker Bullets so I believe this will be my go to bullet for the MR-X. I will keep everyone posted as I receive the product and test it with my Rifle. Stay safe and shoot often

I understand there is some issues. I also spoke to a big name bullet manufacturer (Kyle Pittman) he said some were normal .450/.458 and some were over .452. I get that. There's certainly better bullets available. Sizing bullets to bore has been the principal for some time now and is crucial to accuracy. My bore happens to be one of the .450/.458s and shoots the ELR'S just fine. I understand that some quality control issues arose and some people got some oversized bores. They will have to unfortunately find bullets they can size to their bore. But I still think that the rifles themselves are feature rich and accurate. Period. Are there anomalies? Absolutely. Every rifle and barrel manufacturer goes through it. No two barrel are alike precisely. This has been the case since rifles were made.
Regarding the elr's I said myself I would change a few things on them to improve the integrity and even ballistics of it. But that doesn't mean I think the bullet is poorly designed. I just think it's a mass produced bullet and you're going to see cost cutting practices taken to manufacture them. It's business. Now if we're talking about small batch bullets that are much more costly but do perform better, yes I agree there are better options. Pittman arrowhead parker just to name a couple. I'm only defending my results. Not the brand. And yes the elr could have a higher weight retention than 50%... Seriously. But that doesn't mean it won't drop a white tail at 400... It has

 

[GM54-120]

I think Bergara makes the best barrel you can buy out of the box for a muzzy

 

[JeffB1961]

I personally think that free floating Bergara barrel is worth every penny you pay, no matter what quirky issues the rifle itself may have. Those barrels are absolute gems in my experience. Some of the best in the production barrel business, if not THE best. Personally, that's what sold me on the rifle. And it's relatives. I trust Bergara. The most important part of any rifle is it's barrel. Period. So I personally took the route that got me the highest level barrel I could achieve, given the comparison in price. And really at all. I mean is any barrel on a production muzzy better than a Bergara?

here's a pic from the breech of the Bergara barreled CVA 50 cal. MR-X i got for christmas and sent back to MidwayUSA .

it wouldn't even hold onto a cleaning patch at the bottom . i used patches from the same container with the same jag on a 20 year old optima and they worked just fine . this was gonna be my first ML other than the loaned optima and the MRX was a gift so that compounded my frustration and disappointment .

i'm very glad your experiences were different .

i also decided to get the highest quality barrel i could afford after this CVA so i'm getting a Patriot with a Brux barrel

 

[ENCORE50A]

Ok... As I said I'm not... I like my CVA Accura MR-X. I liked my CVA wolf. I think Bergara makes the best barrel you can buy out of the box for a muzzy. And they make some of the most amazing center fire rifles around. You could call me a Bergara fan boy, yes. But I think I clearly stated while they haven't done me wrong, I'm in no way a "fan boy" of them. I think they're a corporation who does what they have to to cut cost on mass produced products. Like any other big corp. So your little emojis are cute but your question is an already moot point. So have your fun. I think it's cute when people entertain themselves with internet politics. I'm here to learn and share information about muzzleloaders. Not play the this is better than that game... Anyone who can't admit that CVA can make a mean muzzy has some soul searching and reality checks to get through... I haven't seen any other muzzleloaders on the market that out of the box can get a hit at 1,000 yards. But you're right. They suck really bad... SMH

Very few of us shoot LONG RANGE. But you can take a Knight out of the box and shoot 1,000yds and not have to use 150grs of BH209.

CVA has a lot of work to do to gain back ... SERIOUS SHOOTERS ... trust over QC. If it were only a couple of the new rifles that had a POS barrel, all could accept that. However, there are hundreds of reports of barrels that measure over sized, choked and all other matters of crap.

 

[Charger1]

Sure though what I use may or may not be for everyone and may change in the near future.
I'm currently using 105 grains by weight of pyrodex select. Federal 209mz primers and power belt 285 elr bullets. Some people will balk at that magnum charge, but if you look at the bullet design and understand stabilization, you'll understand that there's a reason powerbelt recommends a magnum charge for the use of elr bullets. They also recommend shooting them in 1:24 or faster twist. Again all for a reason. Stabilization. Long spire point bullets are not the easiest to stabilize. Especially out of traditional 1:28 twist barrels. So the 1:22 in the MR-X works well though I would love to play with a 1:20 to do some testing. The load data is putting velocity at 2,100fps and that's actually precisely what I figured it to be. It's just under 2,800fpe at the muzzle.
Accuracy is sub moa as long as I do my part. The barrel likes to be shot dirty just not screaming hot. Yes it kicks like a mule. A big mule. But it's not as bad as people may think. (To me)

Sure though what I use may or may not be for everyone and may change in the near future.
I'm currently using 105 grains by weight of pyrodex select. Federal 209mz primers and power belt 285 elr bullets. Some people will balk at that magnum charge, but if you look at the bullet design and understand stabilization, you'll understand that there's a reason powerbelt recommends a magnum charge for the use of elr bullets. They also recommend shooting them in 1:24 or faster twist. Again all for a reason. Stabilization. Long spire point bullets are not the easiest to stabilize. Especially out of traditional 1:28 twist barrels. So the 1:22 in the MR-X works well though I would love to play with a 1:20 to do some testing. The load data is putting velocity at 2,100fps and that's actually precisely what I figured it to be. It's just under 2,800fpe at the muzzle.
Accuracy is sub moa as long as I do my part. The barrel likes to be shot dirty just not screaming hot. Yes it kicks like a mule. A big mule. But it's not as bad as people may think. (To me)

So you are shooting 105 gr by weight of pyrodex. The manual states 77 gr by weight of BH. I am not questioning you, I am new to MZ. Did you have any concerns about shooting that charge?

 

[MrTom]

Pyrodex has power problems so his 105 grains by weight would not necessarily be a heavy charge when compared to a same charge of a more energetic sub like T7. I think a couple true black powders could give Pyrodex a good run energy-wise. By today's standards, Pyrodex is very old-school.

 

[LAUDY1962]

I understand there is some issues. I also spoke to a big name bullet manufacturer (Kyle Pittman) he said some were normal .450/.458 and some were over .452. I get that. There's certainly better bullets available. Sizing bullets to bore has been the principal for some time now and is crucial to accuracy. My bore happens to be one of the .450/.458s and shoots the ELR'S just fine. I understand that some quality control issues arose and some people got some oversized bores. They will have to unfortunately find bullets they can size to their bore. But I still think that the rifles themselves are feature rich and accurate. Period. Are there anomalies? Absolutely. Every rifle and barrel manufacturer goes through it. No two barrel are alike precisely. This has been the case since rifles were made.
Regarding the elr's I said myself I would change a few things on them to improve the integrity and even ballistics of it. But that doesn't mean I think the bullet is poorly designed. I just think it's a mass produced bullet and you're going to see cost cutting practices taken to manufacture them. It's business. Now if we're talking about small batch bullets that are much more costly but do perform better, yes I agree there are better options. Pittman arrowhead parker just to name a couple. I'm only defending my results. Not the brand. And yes the elr could have a higher weight retention than 50%... Seriously. But that doesn't mean it won't drop a white tail at 400... It has

I don't disagree with you. I am seeking a bullet I want to shoot that has a rich history behind It. I am new to the inline game and shot sidelocks for many years. I just want to try the parkers through my MR-X and report what I learn. Hoping to try some ELR's soon as well. Stay Tuned......

 

[AJMav]

Running sabots and powerbelts seems to be what the lr-x, mr-x series work the best with. I had good success with plastic encased bullets. As I started to focus on out of state muzzy hunting and loading full bore Conicals, I found my bore was very Inconsistent and unsafe. With Sabots and powerbelts it works great. My .50 LR-X was sent back, they have had it 3 weeks, and expect to have it another 3 weeks to inspect my barrel. If I would have found the barrel inconsistency during the 14 day return period, I would have returned it. Time will tell if they make this right..... Only an issue if you plan on shooting/casting full bore conicals....

 

[kylestacey2990]

I don't disagree with you. I am seeking a bullet I want to shoot that has a rich history behind It. I am new to the inline game and shot sidelocks for many years. I just want to try the parkers through my MR-X and report what I learn. Hoping to try some ELR's soon as well. Stay Tuned.

I don't disagree with you. I am seeking a bullet I want to shoot that has a rich history behind It. I am new to the inline game and shot sidelocks for many years. I just want to try the parkers through my MR-X and report what I learn. Hoping to try some ELR's soon as well. Stay Tuned......

So I went out yesterday to go dial in my zero a little further using the elr's and 105 grains of pyrodex select by weight. I had it zeroed at 100, mostly because that's all the space I had with the spots I've been able to go shoot lately. I wanted to Zero it at 150 yards.
So I was finally able to get it out there and was extremely pleased with the results. Sub moa, (as long as I did my part) all day long. Stacking again to be honest. I've always had this habit of shooting this clover leaf like three shot group with my other rifles. Two shots touching or same hole and the third shot always about parallel just to the right, usually intersecting. That's just my shooting form. Don't know what it is that's just the pattern I lay down with an accurate rifle.
So I dialed the half a mil come up, and first one was just to the left of bull perfect elevation. Second one was same hole, though opened it up just a tad, so we're talking less than 1/4" dispersion. Third one was dead on center bull, squeaking just a tad to the left, intersecting with the hole from the first two shots. Less than half inch group, from a cold bore, using a t-shirt rolled up as my rear bag. (Waiting in my new one) I was shocked to be honest. I've yet to shoot that pattern with this rifle yet and without advocating for it like I'm campaigning for CVA, that tells me this rifle is as accurate as I myself can be. Now that doesn't mean there's not MR-X rifles out there having issues. Or not having success with elr's. But I personally have been nothing but impressed by their performance in my particular rifle. I went on to shoot some pretty good groups at 150 yards, the largest one CTC, being about an inch, just under.
I will say I noticed the barrel definitely prefers to be cool. When I shoot more than 3 shots successive, I start to see some flyers, and I've come to the conclusion it's the barrel warming up. I also personally clean after every third shot. When the bore gets too dirty I see some elevation gain, likely due to excessive pressure.
I hope the elr's work out for you as they do for me. I understand they are not the best design, but for what they are, a mass produced bullets, I think they fit the bill. I do have some big 350 grain lead solids and hollow points on the way. I'm trying to decide whether to use a wad or not... Any advice?

 

[kylestacey2990]

So you are shooting 105 gr by weight of pyrodex. The manual states 77 gr by weight of BH. I am not questioning you, I am new to MZ. Did you have any concerns about shooting that charge?

No. That's 70% of the volumetric measurement of a magnum charge. That's the conversion for pyrodex select. It's a 1:1 ratio of black powder. (Volumetricly) now BH 209 yields more energy per granule. Therefore you have to dial back your charge by 15 or 20% I have some BH 209 on the way and will be running that same charge of 77g by weight then. But pyrodex select is 1:1 with BP as BH 209 and triple 7 are not. I understand the confusion though.

 

[ElDiablo]

Sub moa, (as long as I did my part) all day long. Stacking again to be honest. I've always had this habit of shooting this clover leaf like three shot group with my other rifles. Two shots touching or same hole and the third shot always about parallel just to the right, usually intersecting. That's just my shooting form. Don't know what it is that's just the pattern I lay down with an accurate rifle.

Ok, I’ll bite. You think your shooting form is really showing a larger effect than the raw dispersion in that rifle??

Second one was same hole, though opened it up just a tad, so we're talking less than 1/4" dispersion.

You might try shooting a statistically significant number of shots, like 10-30 and see what sort of accuracy that rifle is actually capable of. My guess is more like 1-2 minutes. I’m willing to bet that’s no 1/4 moa rifle.

 

[kylestacey2990]

Very few of us shoot LONG RANGE. But you can take a Knight out of the box and shoot 1,000yds and not have to use 150grs of BH209.

CVA has a lot of work to do to gain back ... SERIOUS SHOOTERS ... trust over QC. If it were only a couple of the new rifles that had a POS barrel, all could accept that. However, there are hundreds of reports of barrels that measure over sized, choked and all other matters of crap.

Pyrodex has power problems so his 105 grains by weight would not necessarily be a heavy charge when compared to a same charge of a more energetic sub like T7. I think a couple true black powders could give Pyrodex a good run energy-wise. By today's standards, Pyrodex is very old-school.

Yes pyrodex is very old school. One of the more antiquated subs on the market. But after seeing some data, pyrodex select actually produced higher velocity at times than even BH 209. Not all of the instances but some. I believe this has to do with the burn rate and it boils down to the size of the bullet you are shooting in my opinion. So that is why I originally chose pyro select. But after seeing all the fouling and crud build up I broke down and ordered a couple jugs of BH 209. You just can't beat how clean it burns. And the higher energy yielding powder produces tighter SD's than anything on the market. So I will be doing some load development with that. It seems that the 77g by weight in the MR-X at least with the elr bullets is where it like though.

 

[kylestacey2990]

Ok, I’ll bite. You think your shooting form is really showing a larger effect than the raw dispersion in that rifle??



You might try shooting a statistically significant number of shots, like 10-30 and see what sort of accuracy that rifle is actually capable of. My guess is more like 1-2 minutes. I’m willing to bet that’s no 1/4 moa rifle.

I have been shooting for some years now. At 32 but going to make it out like I'm shooting on the king of 2 mile but I used to compete shooting high power pcp air rifles out to 500 yards sub moa. I built a .306 caliber bullpup that won and placed me in a few comps. I designed a regulator that I personally tested and used with a company in the Netherlands. So I've shot quite a few. 3 shot groups and quite a few 9, (my last mentioned rifles magazine size) and larger shot groups, not for score but for practice and the rifle itself shooting 62 grain hollow point pure lead slugs, sized to .306 at 1,000fps, shot out of an Alpha Precision polygonal chromoly barrel. It was one of the most accurate rifles I've ever personally shot. I shot it so much I was able to see the errors in my shooting because I was aware of the rifles capabilities, therefore any deviation other than external factors such as wind were me not being consistent enough. Again I helped design the regulator tailored obviously to the platform I had on hand. This was a $5,000 project. So I TRUSTED this rifles feedback.
I guess my point is yes. I think I can confidently say those shots went where they were placed by myself not the rifles deviation. Could I be completely wrong? Absolutely could have been a lucky one. But that was my old shooting pattern absolutely spot on. And I finally felt good getting behind the gun, in a good spot with a little more distance. I shot other groups yesterday that weren't that pattern. Does that mean my point is moot? No. Just means I need to work on my shot.

 

[ElDiablo]

I’ll be darned….